Staying Hands On In Retirement: An 8-6-1-7 Kolbe A Index Result Unpacked | Private Sessions

You are a Hands-On Hero. You are the kind of person who really, you need to get your hands dirty. You need to literally build, touch, construct. Did that resonate with you?

Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. I had to do it myself, couldn't rely on someone else to minimize risk and try to ensure successful outcomes.

Meet Jim. He's a retired helicopter pilot with a need to work with his hands. He spent a long career in the military and in civilian roles rescuing people in high-risk situations. Jim is built to minimize risk. Now, as he travels the country by RV, he's looking for ways to build stronger relationships and never stop learning. You each need to understand that when you are doing the research that she's already done, it's not because you don't trust her, it's just 'cause that's who you are. It's not about her, it's about your need to get that information for yourself. Now, having said that, you don't get a free pass. When you take that extra 30 seconds before she's frustrated to tell her why you're doing it, I don't care how long you've been together, it's still nice to hear from your partner that they care about you enough that they're taking the time to tell you, "I know this could be annoying, but it's not about what you might think." I want to start with something that stood out to me, which is your strength, what we call your Natural Advantage™ in Implementor. So you are a hands-on hero. You are the kind of person who really, you know, you need to get your hands dirty. You need to literally build, touch, construct. And I know a little bit about your professional background, but, number one, did that resonate with you?

Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. I was a military pilot for 27 years, and then, I was an air rescue pilot on the civilian side of the house for 30 years and doing, or performing EMS, emergency medical flights, and search and rescue flights, and some law enforcement. Regardless of the mission, you know, I had to be totally involved, of course, focused. You know, if an area as far as missions that came down from a higher authority, if it wasn't clear to me, then I had to dig into it and, you know, find my own answers and direction to go to, minimize risk. And, yeah, so I really had to get into it. And then, of course, once you break the surety bond, so to speak, you've got to be totally focused. Had to, had to do it myself, couldn't rely on someone else's, I could rely on other people's information up to a certain point, but then I had to really get into it to, again, try to, try to ensure a, successful outcome.

Millions of people have discovered their natural way of taking action. What's yours? Go to kolbe.com and take the Kolbe A™ Index to find out.

Yeah.

It's interesting 'cause you're really describing another one of your strengths with the information and digging into it and asking questions, with your eight in Fact Finder. that's even more than your hands-on hero. You f- first initiate problem-solving with this, as you're even describing it, this need to get information, to dig into things, to find the, you know, to ask questions and find the answers. And as you're saying, not just rely on somebody else's, but kind of do it yourself. That's a bit of a hallmark of, somebody who really initiates, especially at a, an eight level in Fact Finder is, You need to be the expert in things and you need to get the information, not just rely on somebody who-- You know, if you've worked with them long enough and you understand, okay, yeah, their information, they're just as, detailed about things as I am, then okay, that information I'll trust and maybe they can give me the 12-point checklist. That's okay. But if it's somebody especially you haven't worked with as long, you're like, "Okay, I heard what they said. I need to redo some of this stuff." something that interesting to keep in mind, that's, you need to do it. It doesn't always need to be done. There are actually some times where maybe it could slow things down or get in the way, especially depending on, you know, if it's other areas maybe not where life and death are involved, like flying a helicopter. Even if it's not search and rescue or military, even if it's civilian applications that aren't necessarily as risky, flying a helicopter is still inherently a life or death thing. You just wanna minimize the risk, make it as routine and commonplace as possible, knowing that it's never routine. And especially with your, so another part of your Kolbe strengths, with your strength and Quick Start, what you bring there is the stability. It's knowing what works well and sticking with it. It's not experimenting. It's not trying out new things. You know, that's not you. And also, you know, what we've seen, and we've-- I don't have as much data on helicopter pilots per se, but we have more data on fixed wing, both military and civilian pilots. Generally speaking, they're like you, where they initiate in Fact Finder. They don't initiate in Quick Start. They're more like you in Quick Start, where it's, it is really all about stability and, you know, with the Fact Finder, analyzing the risk, and then with the Quick Start, essentially avoiding the risk to the greatest extent possible and keeping in mind, like if it's especially maybe, well, in kind of all flying activities, but I think maybe especially in most military, you can't eliminate the risk. It's just, it comes with the territory, which is why so much of the time the job really requires eliminating the risk that you can eliminate so that you're dealing with as little as possible. So you've got a Kolbe result, or as we call it, you've got a conative MO that is well-suited for, I think, most of the kinds of jobs you were doing. One of the questions I have is how do you think that's transitioned into your retired life? Have you been able to do things that you're interested in that keep using those strengths?

Probably I would say that my biggest focus now, or the mo- most important focus for me, is the fact that we are traveling. You know, this motor home is 41 feet, and we tow a vehicle behind us that's another 15 feet long. So I've got 60, 61 feet to think about when I'm going down the road and going through traffic, you know, stopping distances. And of course, I still think about the weather a lot, the road conditions. So I'm still using a lot of the same decision-making processes and, you know, looking at as many of the different variables as I can just to keep us safe while we're out and about and going down the road. Because again, there's only so much that I can Try to control, but when, when you've got a lot of other people out on the road at the same time and-

You don't control them

No. It's i- again, what we were basically taught years and years ago, you know, defensive driving, it's all about that. And, but again, I try to apply the same principles or the same requirements, criteria, parameters, whatever you wanna call them. And in our travels, you know, planning going from point A to point B, you know, you still think about fuel, and weight, and weather, and all of these things, so.

Well, you know what I love in listening to you, again, you're… What I'm hearing is some- look, I live the conative stuff all the time. You're clearly bringing that initiating, Fact Finder strength of research, data gathering, knowing the information. I mean, just to hear your description of you know exactly how long, you know, 41 feet plus I'm towing 15 feet behind me, and I may have gotten one of those wrong,

but- No, you're, you're, you're right on.

I love that you know all those things. Somebody who is just as safety-conscious, 'cause let's… Look, being thoughtful about safety, any, somebody with any Kolbe result or conative strengths can care about safety. What you bring to it is this specific talent of getting the information and knowing it. Somebody with maybe a three in Fact Finder would know, "Look, I have a really long profile, and I need to do the right things, and here, you know, here's the kinda broad picture." They may not know exactly the length. Hopefully, they know exactly the height, 'cause it's not enough to know what your clearance is more or less. If you're four feet over your clearance height going on a bridge, that's a pretty crucial, or four inches, that's a crucial four inches. But no, I love that you're doing that, and I'd really encourage you, and one of the reasons I asked is talking to people who have transitioned into retirement, a lot of times what they find is they lose that sense of purpose sometimes. And it's really important for people to not lose that sense of purpose, and part of that is applying their conative strengths. So yeah, use that Fact Finder. Do the research, you know, dig into things. And what I would say for you, especially with your one in Quick Start, you won't necessarily intentionally put yourself in novel situations because you, that's just not how you operate. You are, again, a find what works, drill down on those things, and keep doing them. And that's great. Like, I'd encourage you to keep doing it that way. But don't let that, Don't get stuck in a rut of, "Yeah, I've done this enough times, I don't need to get the information and do the research because I've done it so many times." It's like on autopilot. You need to engage that, data-gathering, information-gathering part of you. So, you know, it could just be finding another hobby or interest where you can do that. you know, and at least for a while, maybe it was, you know, when the RV was new, it was becoming an expert, really throwing yourself into learning all about that stuff. another part of the systems, and I, after I tell you this part, I want to hear how you do it, getting back to that hands-on hero Natural Advantage of really using your hands and physically doing stuff, you need to be the one who's doing all the physical system stuff. Not just repairing it, but maybe installing them from scratch and combining your research-oriented part with doing the physical stuff. So I love that part of what you're doing is, constructing this physical environment for yourself that is gonna demand some of that of you. It kind of won't let you off the hook. Like if you had just said, "Oh, well, you know, I have, we bought a cabin and we just go to the cabin and it's really lock it and forget it when I'm gone, and I just show up-" That wouldn't be enough of a challenge for you. If you had the little cabin, it'd be, you know, I'd wanna think, are you adding on to the cabin? Did you buy a cabin that was a fixer-upper? not just a, "Ah, it's on autopilot," kind of thing. So what are you doing along those lines? Or is the RV and stuff you're towing new enough that you're really needing to get into those physical systems?

It's, it's a day-to-day thing. I mean, as far as, again, getting your hands dirty. Fortunately, the chassis is usually, a dependable part of the machinery. But the house part, the coach part, the plumbing, the electrical, the appliances, all of those things, going down the road, they get beat up big time. it's kind of, some people equate it to you're living in your sticks-and-bricks, as they say, house, but you're experiencing a 5.7 or a 6.0 magnitude earthquake every day, and that's kind of what this is all about when you're going down the road in one of these. Whether it's a fifth-wheel RV or a travel trailer or a motor home like this, they get beat up big time. So you're constantly, you know, looking at little repair jobs. I mean, occasionally there's a job that, or something that needs to be repaired that I know my limitations, and I know that if I get into this, that I may make things worse, and that's when I call for outside help. But usually I can resolve the issue, again, by getting into, finding a manual. When it comes to all these different pieces, parts, usually, you know, you can find a resource on the internet, thankfully, and, go to that resource and do some digging and find your answers there. The people that built this coach, you know, I think I've got their technical support people on speed dial. So I'm, I'm I'm, … I relate it to my aviation career in that thankfully I never stopped learning, and this is the same, this is the same thing. I do not Want to get, become complacent. Like a little earlier you were talking about getting into this routine, you know, and, I certainly don't wanna go there. In aviation, you know, we had a saying about, "Complacency kills," and, there's a lot of, truth to that. So but again, I try to apply a lot of what I'd learned there to what we're doing now. And, at times I get a little… I'll hear a sound or something, it's like, "What's that?" You know? And my better half has to remind me that, "Hey, you know, we're not gonna fall out of the sky." You know, "It's just when we get to the next stop or we, quit for the day and get set up, you can check it out. But you know, it's not… You don't have to break out the emergency procedures book and," you know, so.

So you mention your wife, your better half. I assume you've seen her Kolbe results too. I know she's taken them.

Yes. Yes.

Any surp- And maybe describe h- how you, what they were and any surprises for you, or was it, "Yeah, I know this about her. We've been together for so long"?

You know, after 58 years being, Well, we just celebrated our 58th anniversary and well, thank you. She's a very patient woman, believe me. I'm not, I was not surprised by her results and, thankfully she can, I think she's the anchor, okay? In the s- in places where I, where I need help, she's there. So, no, I w- I was not… I'm looking over there 'cause her- Her results are over, you know, a couple feet away there, and because we had both of our documents together, no, I was not surprised by her strengths and

Yeah. Well, as you were saying, when you've been around somebody for 58 years, you get to know them pretty well. I- that said, I definitely see times when spouses are a little surprised. I think it's probably less common when they've spent time together retired. It's more common when they've been together for a long time, but there's kind of the work part of the person, and then there's the home part of the person, and those things… Because you, like a lot of people, use up their strengths, their conative strengths at, in their professional lives, and then they get home, and the spouse doesn't necessarily see that all the time. But with you guys, you've been together a long time, A, and you've been together now when you are both… I'm assuming she's not working outside the house these days either. You guys are retired together. One of the things that I noticed is you guys have… And I'm looking down 'cause I have her result here, too. you're, you're not that far off in any of the four Kolbe Action Modes®. So we've talked about three of them kind of without, or two of them, Quick Start and Fact Finder. Oh, no, three, 'cause Implementor, we started with that. We haven't talked Follow Thru. But your four numbers, you're an 8.6.1.7. So as I mentioned with your Fact Finder, you really lead with, you know, delving in, getting information, asking questions, very, information and data-intensive person. you're a Quick Start. You stabilize. You figure out what works well. You stick with that. You're Implementor. That's that hands-on hero, the physical part that you really need to do. It's not just learning about it and then hopefully handing it over to somebody else to get their hands dirty. You actually need to fix the stuff, repair the stuff, build it from the ground up when possible even. And then the one we haven't talked about as much yet is the Follow Thru, which is where you're the, where you're a six. That's that second number. So you're in the mid-range, so you accommodate in Follow Thru. So Follow Thru is about system, structure, organization. So you don't start the problem-solving process with, creating a plan and a system and a structure, but you live within that. I mean, you will do that when it's clear that it's necessary. Hey, we don't have a plan yet. Somebody needs to build it. You will do that. But what's most natural for you is, oh yeah, there's a plan and a system in place. I'm gonna go along with that. I'll follow the steps. So that's kind of you. What I was saying was with you and your wife, she's a 7-4-4-4. So you- the two places where you're furthest apart are Quick Start and Implementor, where you're, three units or three numbers apart in each of those. but that's not a huge difference. Where you'll see that maybe is she's the one who's most likely to say, "Hey, let's just try something different. Let's go to a place we've never been. You know, let's throw a dart at the map, and wherever it hits, that's where we're going." She's not way out on the end of the spectrum on that, but she's more likely to do that than you are. Does that sound true?

Oh, definitely. She is the, adventurous one. Yeah. She's, definitely where I'm kind of… I'm just not as adventuresome in the same way. You know, I mean, again, I spent a good part of my life, aviating, and there's a certain amount of adventure to that. But, even in retirement, you know, she's, she's all about that. she's, I accuse her of having a fair amount of, gypsy, DNA, in herself, 'cause, but that-

Yeah, and what's interesting is that would be more true. Like, you would see the difference more than most people because you are at the end of the spectrum where it is about what works, let's stick with it, rather than the kind of wanderlust. And look, some of that's affective. Like, there are times where it might be something that appeals just at a, like an emotional level, but you are really about, "No, let's stick with the tried and true." You're the kind of person who's more like, "Hey, we've done this vacation before. I love that vacation. Let's do it again And I caution people, and it sounds like you guys have worked this out, but sometimes there's, again, it's the romantic appeal almost. And there then is this stereotype, and I think sometimes people who have a result like yours almost feel bad about themselves. Like, "Well, I'm not, you know, adventurous enough," or, "I'm not enough like that." Like, you are who you are. There's nothing wrong with that. Now, if your wife is very different, then that's something that you've gotta figure out. Like, okay, how can we both make this work? but yeah, a lot- my guess is a lot of people would look at your wife and go, no, that's totally… She's kinda in the middle on that, not way out there. But because you're more toward one end, you'd see that difference more.

I do. Yeah, for sure. And I'm thankful for that. And, you know, her mantra is kind of, "The mountains are calling me, I gotta go," type of thing, you know? So, and so, and I just follow her lead. I try to go with following her lead because she hasn't s- steered me wrong yet, I will put it that way. And it's all been good. So, navigating sometimes can be an issue. The problem there being that, you know, even with the modern or the high-tech GPS and some of the programs, they don't know if you're riding a bicycle or a skateboard or if you're in a, you know- 40 feet, 11 inch motor home, so I just call it 41 feet. But anyway, yeah, it doesn't know, so-

That's such an Eight and Fact Finder little distinction there. I love it, 'cause I'm an Eight and Fact Finder, too

So sometimes navigat- and it, during our adventures, navigating can be, a little challenging sometimes. And we found ourselves in a few spots where, you know, we've, we've had to stop, and I'll knock on somebody's door and say, "Hey, can we use your driveway to get turned?" Because first we gotta disconnect the car from the coach, 'cause you can't back it up. And so sometimes it can be kind of, challenging and, But hey, we're still married, so that's, that's a good thing.

Well, one of the things, a- another one of the areas where you're very similar is, in Fact Finder, you are both, she- she m- maybe not quite as much as you, but she's also a researcher, data, information person. So, you know, you can count on she's not just coming up with some wild hair she hasn't thought about and looked into. and that probably makes it easier for you to go with the flow when she's saying, "Let's… Hey, the mountains are calling. H- here's this idea." 'Cause she's, she will have also looked into it before you even need to. Now, you're gonna, as you've described before, you're gonna need to do some of that on your own, but it's easier for you to know, hey, she's suggesting we go to, I don't know, Estes Park, Colorado. You've probably been there. It's a popular spot. but she, if it's someplace you've never been, she probably did enough research to know, oh yeah, they've got campgrounds that are, will accommodate a 40 foot 11 inch h- motor home. and then you'll still do it and double check it, 'cause that's who you are. One thing, and I, it sounds like you guys have worked this out, but I, I say it to couples a lot who match your strengths in Fact Finder here. you each need to understand that when you are doing the research that she's already done, it's not because you don't trust her or don't think she's good at it or smart enough. It's just 'cause that's who you are. and the same thing in reverse. You do that stuff, and when you tell her, "Oh, here's the information I've gotten," if she either starts peppering you with questions or she then redoes the research that you've already done, if you find yourself getting frustrated like, "Hey, she should know. She should trust me on this stuff," it's not that she doesn't trust you. It's she just needs to get the answers herself. So I don't know, have you ever, either now or earlier in your relationship, were there times when that was frustrating for you?

Frustrating for her because it's, because again, it's, it's just that inherent, I gotta, I gotta double-check this, you know? And s- and it's again, I try to emphasize to her that it's not a trust issue. It's just I just- I'm trying to, you know, look at all the variables and everything and make sure all the pieces fit together and, before we, you know, before we, start the journey. And, as far as… Yeah, I think that's been, well, I know that's been frustrating for her because I just, I have to go back in there and look at things and, s- it can, it can create some friction that way, yeah.

Yeah, no, I get that. which is why I mentioned it 'cause I've seen it before, so I hope she's watching the podcast so she can hear me say, without you even prompting me, it's not about her. It's about your need to get that information for yourself. now having said that, you don't get a free pass. So, you know, this is the flip side. So yes, she needs to take a deep breath and remind herself, "Hey, it's just what Jim needs. It's about him. It's not that he doesn't trust me or think I'm smart enough." The, but the part for you about not getting a free pass is you've r- already recognized that it can frustrate her, so ask for forgiveness sometimes ahead of time, and just tell her you know you're gonna research it and let her know, "Hey honey, just a reminder, I've got some questions. It's not about you, it's just about me. I'm sure you've done the research. Frankly, it's me showing you that I actually do trust the research and I do think you're smart, but I'm gonna show you the respect of asking the questions because I know you'll give me good information." Or if you're gonna go out and get it on your own, it's like, "I know I'm not gonna take your time 'cause I respect your time, but just for me, I'm gonna go do the same stuff you've already done. It's not 'cause I don't trust you. It's about me, honey." When you take that extra 30 seconds before she's frustrated to tell her why you're doing it is a sign of respect. Honestly, it's I, "I know this about you, I know this about me. I wanna make sure you understand why I'm doing it." And again, you've been together for 58 years. She knows it, but I don't care how long you've been together, it's still nice to hear from your partner that they care about you enough that they're taking the time to tell you, "I know this could be annoying, but it's not about what you might think." So, and my wife and I do this pretty often. I'm, I had mentioned I'm an eight in Fact Finder. I've had to learn that I'm not so good and patient when people ask me questions and wanna go deeper. Sometimes I do take it as, "Are you kidding? I've already done this. Why are you making me h- rehash it?" But it's okay. Like, they deserve to be able to ask the questions. So really for me, that's telling myself, "David, take a deep breath. They're not challenging you. It's okay." Now, what I've also learned, my wife's different than yours. She's, she's not an initiating Fact Finder, so I will stop and I will ask her, "Well, honey, I could give you 15 minutes on this answer, which is what I'm about to do if you really wanna know the answer. So tell me how much information you really want." Because I also don't… And sometimes if I haven't taken the time to take a deep breath and I just react 'cause I'm triggered, like, why isn't she just okay with the two things I've already told her? I can kind of childishly go into, "Oh, fine, you want all the information? I'm gonna waste your time, and I'm gonna give you all the information that I don't think you need or want." That's not helpful either, and that's more about me not being good at self-regulation. So, but then when I stop and ask her, then she can tell me, "Honey, look, I just want three more things. Can you just tell me three more?" And I'm like, "Perfect. I hear you. Thanks." And you know- I'm fine.

Yeah. Communication. Yeah, it's, yeah. And,

That's one of those basic things. Everybody knows it, but it's sometimes hard to keep in mind and practice. Communication is key. Whether it's a personal relationship, a professional one, a little bit of extra time communicating goes a long way.

Yeah. Sure does. Yeah.

So what things day to day do you wanna talk about or do you have questions about now that you've gotten your Kolbe results? How can you apply them day to day?

Being able to, stay focused and, on track, not getting distracted. At level eight, being a, procrastinating. That has become a- an issue with me is procrastinating. And, when I- So

let- let's take that one, and then we can kinda maybe work backward on the focused and stuff. But with procrastinating, I think with somebody with your result, one thing that can happen is because of your high need for data and information and doing analysis with that data and information, that can make things take a long time. It can also sometimes combine with your one in Quick Start. Sometimes you are hesitant to pull the trigger on something, you know, to just take that next step. So I think a technique for you would be identify for yourself how much time is there for that data-gathering information analysis phase of things before you just need to say, "Nope, that's it." And then finding a way, and maybe it is with your wife, she can maybe hold you accountable. Like, "Hey, you've got a day," or, "You've got four hours," or whatever the length of time is. and then after that length of time, there's a decision point where there's a- an action necessary. And you can even identify whatever that is, and sometimes what's good is pick a small action that you know you can do. So sometimes the decision point, you know, you might think, "Well, it's too early to make the big decision on something." And that's what can get you held up is, "Ugh, can I really make the- that big decision?" It's easy to put that one off 'cause, oh, I don't know, there's still these six things I'd like to know. But if you then make it an action point rather than… or a smaller decision. Like, it's not the entire thing. It's either a smaller action point or a smaller decision point, not the big decision. It gets you moving. So okay, look, I've got four hours of research, and at the end of that four hours, I have to take a certain action, the next step. And the next step is less daunting. and I think particularly with the transition into retirement, what happens sometimes is there are… When you're working professionally, there's an outside actor that's forcing that either decision point or action. And you can't get away from the outside, so it's like an accountability person. And that's why I'm saying maybe bring your wife into it so it's not just you. But in your job, it's like, well, sure, I could. I maybe would normally take another two days to take that next action or make a decision. I don't have that luxury. Somebody is forcing me to do it. So if you can't impose that yourself, and so- and I would challenge you, sometimes you don't think you can, but you can. Like with you would be a checklist. You're not, You know, with your six in Follow Thru, you will follow a plan and a system. so you can do some of that stuff, and you can show yourself, oh, look, here's the next, point on that flowchart. So maybe that's the next, as I'm saying, the branch in the flowchart or something. And when you're at that stage, you can do it. But it's also with your eight in Fact Finder, it's like a checklist. Like, oh, I've done these three checks.

00, I've got to do- check off that next one. That's the kind of thing that you can do either as a self-imposed discipline or your wife can do it. Like you can come up with a checklist. You post it on the fridge or, you know, wherever. Just hand it to your wife and say, "Honey, will you make sure that I

00 PM tomorrow?" She'd be like, "Yeah, I would be happy to hold you to account on that." It's kind of a fun game. but yeah, that outside actor from work isn't there anymore, so find a way to recreate it.

Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's an excellent, approach, suggestion. because I'm, I'm, I'm reminded on a fairly often basis to prioritize and, to establish the priorities and that's the iss- Again, when I was aviating, no problem. You know? I had the focus. I could multitask. I knew the priorities. All of that fell in line. But here, again, I'm, I'm being reminded, not on a daily basis, but, prioritize. And that's where I have, challenges because again, the distractions. You know, I'll, I'll start over here and then it, as she calls it, I have an ice cream moment or a squirrel moment. You know? As I'm focusing in, oh, squirrel or ice cream or, you know. So now I'm over there, and then I'm over here, and then consequently nothing gets done. You know? So-

Yeah. So- Figure out what both of you, and this sounds like it's a together, this is a team thing. So if she has her priorities and it's important to her that you knock some of those things off, then come to an agreement. Again, the communication part is, "Honey, look, which are your priorities? And to some extent, since we're a team and a couple, yeah, I will take those on and they're my priorities too." But then there's a, then there's a negotiation. So which are hers? Does she get all of hers and none of your own? And another thing is build in time for ice cream and squirrel moments Like, that's perfectly… Well, two things. Number one, it's perfectly all right. It's also realistic. Like, so, you know, systems don't work well when they don't take reality into place, and you know that from, you know, your days as an aviator. If you just think, "Well, it's always gonna go by the book, and it's never gonna deviate," and we have a really brittle system that only works when things go to plan, that's a bad system. It needs to have some flexibility. It needs to be stronger and a little flexible rather than super rigid but brittle. So same thing, you know, with your married and retired life. So what are the priorities? Which are yours? Which are mine? Where's the flexibility? So yeah, in the course of a day, there are six squirrel and ice cream moments, but it doesn't get us out of by the end of the day or the week, here are the top things that need to be done. But what's… I'm not… It's interesting to hear you say it because initiating factor- fact-finders set priorit- priorities. You don't always check 'em off the list, but it's very natural for you to have to prioritize things and come up with the checklist. That, the checklist and set of priorities are more natural for you than a really thorough plan for how that's all gonna happen with your follow-through. Again, you live within plans rather than create them from scratch. But you'll do those priorities as long as you set 'em out. But you guys can do that as a team. Again, she can do some of 'em rather than just saying, "Well, you have to come up with all of them." But as long as there's buy-in, like with your, you're gonna need to essentially ratify them and take them on as your own because with your eight and Fact Finder, that's gonna be important part of you getting 'em done.

All good information, good, suggestions and-

You know, you've gotta figure out what works for you, which is why I'm suggesting the checklists and the getting information and building in, you know, opportunities to get distracted if that's what happens, while still focusing on what needs to get done and what actually has to get done. But it's also giving yourself the grace, not all the things have to get done. So, you know, that's okay, too. If it's… And that's why is it really a priority or is it a, oh, you know, here are things that at some point can get done, but they don't have to be done today or this week. They could be put off for a while. It's like, okay, well, then you didn't miss a deadline if you put off something that doesn't need to be done. Just because it's the next one that happened to have been written down doesn't mean it necessarily is the one you're gonna do next.

Yeah. Yeah. some of that is internal pressure, if you will, or my own expectations of what I should, you know, be doing and a lot of that comes from inside.

Well, and that's where if it's more of an internal should- I mean, I'll kind of ask you to challenge some of those things. So do you really need to? And if you… Look, if you want to, whether it's need or want, if you feel like you should, okay, after reflection. But I'd say there are things that maybe you don't actually need to get done, and if it's a self-imposed should, then that means you can let it go. Like should from a safety standpoint, yeah, look, I should check on these safety things with my vehicle before we go on a long drive. Yeah, you should. So make yourself do that, and I'm not, I'm not worried about that. You- between your learned behavior and your attention to detail with your fact finder, those things are gonna happen. But if it's other stuff that's more of a, "Ugh, I feel bad when I don't do all these things because that's the way I used to operate," yeah, but maybe you don't need to do some of those things anymore, and that's okay, and you can let it go. And that is a, that's a more internal one that takes longer to unlearn some of that learned behavior. And that's, again, giving yourself the grace of it's all right. You know? I've thought about it. It doesn't have to happen that way, and it actually suits me better. Yeah, I can give myself more time to look into stuff. You're not violating some actually important principle by not doing it today.

No, that all sounds good. Now it's just implementing, you know, the ideas, the suggestions, and but it all sounds good to me because I… You know, you're on this, you know, like the o- the expression, you know, you're a work in progress, you know? So you're, you, you wanna get here, you know, wherever here is, but you try and minimize the bumps in the road, to get there. But so all the, all the outside help, I welcome that. So I welcome what you, I'm thankful what you've told me and suggestions and an approach that I can take or different approaches and, more communication, maybe more accountability on the part of my commander-in-chief there. but, no, it all sounds good, so I appreciate it.

Well, good. I'm glad it's been helpful, and thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you being on.