Keep the Chaos at Bay: A 6-7-2-6 Kolbe A Index Result Unpacked | Private Sessions

You've got this wonderful strength in getting in a situation where things can spin out of control, and you really stabilize. You find what works. You stick with it. Sometimes you will get pushback from other people, like yeah, other people do that, but that's not your strength. Does it sound like you when I describe it quickly?

That, you basically just spoke my entire project management into existence.

Meet George. He's a video editor and small business owner who creates structure in a chaotic world. George is a deeply organized dad who thrives in stability. Today, I'm helping him learn how to stay grounded when clients and family break his detailed plans.

It's something I'm always kind of battling is maybe it's that I want more control. I'm always just reaching for systems to try to help myself, my clients, and the people that I work with.

I'm frankly kind of sitting here feeling the stress you must have been under for a couple years, and it sounds like maybe continuing a little, but sounds like you've gotten to a point where you've pushed some of that chaos and change and unknown back. Is there anything that surprised you in the discussion?

Honestly, I really think just the understanding of

You're what we call a Chaos Controller with your Natural Advantage™. I mean, you've got this, wonderful strength in getting in a situation where things can spin out of control and you really stabilize. You find what works. You stick with it. You find how to repeat that. Sometimes you will get pushback from other people, like, "Well, why don't you just roll with it?" Or, you know, "How come... " Yeah, other people do that, but that's not your strength. So I I love that you have that. With all the strengths, there's no better or worse. It's not like, oh, this is a better way for you to be than other ways. But it's just, it's fascinating. It's a really interesting result. Does it, does it sound like you when I describe it quickly?

It's funny. It's like, in my mind, I'm like, "Is that really me?" But then when I think about my actions, it's exactly me. Because not even 30 minutes before this call, I was just trying to make a decision of going with the flow with a client of mine or pushing to bring them into what I think is a better idea, and it's, it was something I was wrestling with just not even an hour ago. So yes, it does.

So and other times it's shown up for you. What what do you think of when you think of bringing your chaos controller to the fore?

Well, since I do run my own business, there are people that I work with that often, I think of myself as a bit of a shield so that they can do their job better without knowing about, "Oh yeah, well, X, Y, and Z, this client is mad as a hornet." But you don't need to know that. You need to know that the result's this, and I'm gonna try to keep you in that area where you don't need all the context, but I'll give you what you need to do a great job. And that's probably the most common these days. But when I go back over everywhere I've, I've worked and lived, it's funny because it's almost like a, it's, in a way it's, like, my greatest fear, is something's gonna fall out of place. And so it makes sense that my fear would kind of also be playing to a strength.

Yeah, so George, your full Kolbe result, like the four numbers are 6726, so 6 in Fact Finder, 7 in Follow Thru, 2 in Quick Start, and 6 in Implementor. So, and remember, all of those are positive. It's not like, "Oh, I wish I were stronger," or, "Wish I had a higher Quick Start." That 2 is a great strength in being the chaos controller. I know a bit about your background, but just kind of for everybody watching, tell us a little bit more. How'd you get here? How'd you get to running your own business?

So I got here by, I'm a... The easiest way to explain my position is I'm a video editor. And many years ago, when I used to live in Los Angeles, and I live in Texas, I was a video editor for a small agency. COVID happened, and suddenly everything's kind of out of control, and, I ended up fleeing the coop, if you will. I had an amazing mentor there, and I left to go do my own thing, 'cause it was kind of the only option at that point, and started my own agency. And in starting that agency, I first went into more traditional video editing, and it worked out great, but it was just really hard. I worked for some big clients like the NFL, and Meta, but it was just a lot to handle. And so I decided to find a way to make my life a little bit more, predictable after having a child, a kid. And so now I work in a podcast agency. I started a business that's a small podcast agency where I work to try to Take what my skill set is and help clients as best as I can while also making my life a little bit more predictable and not so chaotic.

Millions of people have discovered their natural way of taking action. What's yours? Go to kolbe.com and take the Kolbe A™ Index to find out. Yeah, so tell me a little bit about that transition. So how old's your child?

She is four.

She's four.

So she came a little bit after COVID.

So you essentially lost your job 'cause the video production world went to hell in a handbasket.

Exactly.

Moved across the country, had a kid. When did you get married?

2021. Okay.

So wow, that's a lot of change going on all at once, and I'll, I'll add another, like drip another piece of your Kolbe result in here. You're also a seven in Follow Thru. So Follow Thru is how we deal with systems, structure, planning. So in addition to you being a kind of person when it comes to change, so your strength in change, as I said, that's the chaos controller. Rather than just, "Oh, let's experiment. Let's just... Every day is a new... " That's not you. It's more kind of, "Hey, what works? Let's stick with what works." When you add to that the fact that your strength in systems and structure is to be somebody who creates systems, sticks with them, operates most effectively within a structure, like, you know. And those, by the way, don't always go together. There are some people who create a structure, but then experiment and, kind of change things up all the time, so that structure and that plan is always changing. For you create the plan, the system, the structure, and then you, you keep it consistent and you don't just experiment with it all the time. I'm frankly kind of sitting here feeling the stress you must have been under for a couple of years, and it sounds like maybe continuing a little, but sounds like you've gotten to a point where you've pushed some of that chaos and change and unknown back. Is that true?

I do think on paper it sounds like that. In action, I do feel a lot of that same energy still on the day-to-day, and it's a struggle.

It is.

It's something I'm always kind of battling is maybe it's that I want more control. I'm not too sure, but I'm, I'm always I'm always just reaching for systems to try to help myself, my clients, and the people that I work with. But I always want more, and I don't know where that comes from, but it's an issue is I always want a little bit more control.

Yeah, so with your Kolbe result, so your instinctive conative strengths and your conative strengths means really the strengths in the way you naturally instinctively take action. So when we talk about it's not that you can't do it a different way, of course you can. Like, let's just talk about the experimenting. Sure, you can, and I'm sure you've had to do that over the course of your career, especially when you moved and changed your job and started a family. Like, those were all new things, and you obviously did them. So it's not that you can't, it's just it's more natural for you when you can find the stability, figure out what works, and stick with it. And so I have four kids. They're in their 20s now, so they're not toddlers, but I definitely remember those toddler years, and yeah, I mean, they change things up. They're constantly developing, and right when you think, "Oh, okay, I've kind of got a handle on this. I know what the flow of being a dad to this one-year-old... " Well, then they're not a one-year-old, they're a one-and-a-half-year-old, and that has a different set of challenges and reactions from them. So I totally get that. - I really encourage you to take some time frequently, for yourself essentially. So there-- not just the, oh, take the time for yourself 'cause it's important the self-care. There's that part, but that's not really what I'm talking about. Take time for yourself to get plans and systems and vision for the future. So you really need, as an initiating Follow Thru, to be able to see kinda beginning, middle, and end. What has happened? Where am I now? And what can I expect in the future? And that future could be, and I think for you it doesn't have to be 10 years out. Sure, it can be. But that future might be what's gonna happen next week, six months from now, a year from now. So kind of a more realistic planning horizon kind of future, not just that, oh, I could do anything in 10 years, but really more concrete. 'Cause it's really easy for all of us to focus on what didn't happen, and I think especially for initiating Follow Thrus, it's like, "Hey, I had this plan for the day," and we focus on, ugh, these four parts got messed up and didn't happen. Sure, you're right, but these 17 other things did happen, and give yourself credit for it. And also it's more grounding for somebody like you with that strength in initiating Follow Thru, that planning part, to be reminded of, yeah, it's not all spinning out of control. There were these variables out there that happened, but it's okay. Another thing you can do when you're, taking that kinda time is, well, a-it's, whether it's that kind of time or just when you're planning and creating your systems and structure, put chunks in there, and sometimes it's chunks of time. But you often can't put it on the calendar like, oh, this is gonna happen from 10 to 11, because what I want you to do in your mind and kind of in the text of the plan is say, "Things will go sideways today." So it's not that you want them to, it's not that you are pushing it and But I know they will, yeah But they will, so if you as an initiating follow through make it explicit, like kind of like when you have those all day blocks at the top of your calendar, it's like some days you're out for the whole day and it just puts at the top. At the top of your calendar it can just say You know, however the phrasing makes sense to you, things will go wrong. There will be moments of chaos. There will be breaks in the plan. There will be hell in a handbasket at some point.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

And then when it happens, instead of feeling like, "Oh my gosh, I'm s this is beyond my control and frustra-" Look, it's still gonna be frustrating. I wanna be realistic. But you can look at it and go, "Yep, look at me. I knew that would happen at

some point. This is the point that it happened." Because- Yeah, I like that because it's funny, because often in my head I know that it's gonna come. But every single day, and sometimes it's not a day, sometimes it's over the course of a week, my plans get knocked over, and I feel myself trying to chase after what I thought the week was gonna be, and I never get there, and it's almost like this endless cycle of what could have been or what was taken from me. And it's... I just keep thinking, "Well, next week it'll... I'll fix that next week." But then it's, there's just always something more to chase.

Right. Do, would you consider yourself a perfectionist?

Very close to one, yes.

Okay. Yeah, so you're, you shoot for a very high standard. And I'm not asking you to shoot for a lower standard. I actually don't believe in that. I mean, yes, perfectionism can go too far and become... I mean, sometimes it can be really debilitating. Set high standards, but then also be realistic about where you're likely to get to. And if you set a really high standard and you get just below it, but that's actually better than you promised the client you were gonna deliver, and frankly it should be because it sounds like you're the kind of person, you're always gonna expect more of yourself than the client is going to expect from you.

Absolutely, yes. It's a flaw, for sure.

Well, it's not a flaw. It's who you are, so let's work with it. Because, and also, so I haven't talked yet about your fact finder, but let's talk about that. So you are a six in Fact Finder, which is, Fact Finder's how we deal with gathering and sharing information. So you're in the accommodate range, kind of in the mid-range between somebody who really needs to do tons and tons of research and get all the information versus somebody on the other end of the spectrum that's, "You know what? I'm just gonna focus on a couple key points, and I don't need to go so deep in all of the facts and details." So you're in the middle on those, but you skew more toward the data side of stuff. So with this combination of your planning and your systems and hey, a little more data gathering and sharing than the average person probably, you'll spot those patterns. You'll get the information. So this is why I think you really will understand well Hey, I'm setting high standards, but I also know that the client will be happy with this, and I know what to shoot for that's realistic without feeling like I'm, cutting corners maybe. Yes.

And then, yeah, in a little microcosm, that's what I would say is almost the struggle of my past decade in a way is knowing I don't have to get the moon and the stars. But no matter what I do, once I reach a flow, I just start going for the 11 out of 10. Even though I'm fully aware that this client really might only need a 7 out of 10, and that doesn't mean I'm doing a worse job, it just means that's what they need. But I When I do see potential, I tend to chase it. And then it's interesting looking at the Fact Finder 'cause that does register. It's like when I... Being a six, like I would say when I'm doing something I know, like you said, a pattern, I don't need to do so much research. I feel like I know kind of where to run. But the moment I tread into the territory of like, this is new for me, I can spend an incredible amount of time kind of like trying to make sure that I feel confident before I say go.

Yeah. Well, and you should build the time in for that as well, so you recognize it, you're aware of it. And yeah, I think the reason for that is with your two in Quick Start, in combination with the other parts, those new things where you really feel like, "I don't have the information," it's kinda, don't know what to expect. You need to then kick that Fact Finder research kind of part into gear so that it doesn't seem so new and experimental. It's like, well, I haven't actually done it myself yet this way, but I was able to do the research, ask a bunch of questions, figure some things out before just jumping in. You are not a... Well, you are a look before you leap kind of person, not just a go for it, jump in. Again, this isn't a can or can't, so you can just jump in, but it's not natural for you. It will take more energy and impose more stress on you when you don't have that time to figure some things out ahead of time.

I I was so interested in this one in particular when I was reading about it because part of me almost wants to like push against that, only because I think of myself as really creative, and I associate creativity with what I would assume is kind of a Quick Start. And maybe that's wrong, but it's, when I'm doing, you know

Well, kind of, but keep going. We'll get back to that.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I just... That's, it's funny because I do... When I'm like working strictly in a creative role versus more of like a logistical role, I do a lot of kind of untested things. But it's it's in a creative world, which I don't do that and wouldn't do that so much on the day-to-day with a client in terms of, like, communication. But if I, that creative part of me is, I would... It's very different, I think. Yeah, so let me touch on this notion that, oh, isn't creative the same as the

Other end of the spectrum in Quick Starts? Like, oh, taking risks and experimenting and doing things differently all the time. So, no. That is not... I would reject that notion, and here's why. Your Kolbe results, your your conative strengths are about the way you take action naturally. So, all of that is about creativity. So there's part of your way of being creative is having a plan ahead of time, figuring out, where do I want this to go? So sure, there's a type of creativity that I think is more celebrated and honored right now in our culture. I don't know if that's true in all cultures, by the way. But there's a type that's celebrated where it's, oh, it looks like it was just total seat of the pants, just woke up with a lightning bolt hitting you, and you tried something totally different. And sure, that's the way creativity works for people who are like that. Like, nines in Quick Start who that's their MO. That's the way they operate. You're just as creative with your way of doing something, which is more systematic and planned and structured. Think of, and, you know... So I obviously don't have his Kolbe results, but Thomas Edison. So, great inventor, and you think, "Well, that's certainly somebody who just had these lightning bolts of inspiration." But in the reading that you do on his life, that's not really how he operated. He would research. He would do things over and over and over. He would fail and fail and fail, but always make incremental steps toward the big goals that he had set for himself, and then he would reach them. He'd find things. He would change thing- Like, even the light bulb. I mean, it's literally the symbol of that light bulb going off in your head, and yet he didn't invent the light bulb. People think he did. He he invented a much better light bulb that was more usable, but there had already been some. He went through I don't even know how many hundreds of different, Versions- Iterations. Mm-hmm... Iterations. Yeah. So it wasn't this waking up one day and all of a sudden he realized, "That's it. I know what I'm gonna try out." You're that kind of person where you will have these creative breakthroughs that you can kind of count on. They don't come immediately. They will come over a little bit more time. So I would guess, like, when you are most successful and you create things that you give yourself credit for being creative about, you had that vision in mind with, "Okay, here's where I am. I'm gonna try some things out, but I'm working toward this goal at the end. If they don't work, I'm gonna learn from them and put it into the next step." You will really plan out those phases or steps in the process, and then you'll get there.

That's, like, that, you basically just spoke my entire project management into existence. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. And, 'cause I always, when I'm working on a project, it could be this massive project with a million, a million literally, like, possible outcomes It is like I almost try to build almost like a safe space to play in that's not going to result in a tangent that flies me off the side of the edge of whatever the project is. But that's what I do, is I try to really just create a safer space through some planning, and then I let myself kind of run wild after the larger picture is in place.

So that makes a whole lot of sense. - And I think having worked with people like you as vendors, as a client, what I'll say is I want I will love it once- when you come to me and tell me that ahead of time, where, "You know what? This is how I'm gonna be the best vendor you've ever worked for. I'm... You know, I'm gonna deliver the best content edited really well. Here's my process." You will give me so much reassurance that it's not just, oh, it happened one time, but I don't know if he's really gonna deliver the next time, because you'll communicate that. So in your pitch material or just your communications that you have with other people, and this is obviously the business context, but it's also true in personal stuff, and we'll, we'll get to that in a second. But, communicate that because it's sincere. It really is who you are, so you'll say it, and then you will demonstrate it without even having to try because it's just, it's real. It's who you are. So we haven't touched on the last of your four, MOs, Kolbe strengths, conative strengths, which is called Implementor. Implementor is how we deal with tactile, tangible, literally three-dimensional hands-on stuff. So you're a six in Implementor, and what that means is you... It's that mid-range, kinda like with Fact Finder. It's in kind of the middle but skewing toward the side of things where you really do need to get your hands on things. I would really encourage you always as you're growing your business to be out at a shoot. So even if out at a shoot means, well, you're in your studio, don't just be at a desk planning it, having conversations with the client. I I want you to still go in and touch and feel all the equipment. How is the lighting? - If you get trapped behind a desk and on the phone, and that's 90% of what you do with your business, you're gonna lose the spark. You're not gonna love it. So you always need to keep that high value. Like, you don't wanna spend all your time on low-value stuff for your business and your clients, but, "Oh, okay, well, but I wrapped up all the cables and cinched them up." Like, yeah, you can do a little bit of that if you need that hands-on outlet, and that's a silly one. But it's... That's why I talk about more stuff like lighting and other things that are gonna make the end product so much better. But it's a common mistake that people make is, as they grow their business, they get totally out of some things that they need to do because it's who they are, and they think, "Well, now this is kind of below me in terms of what we get paid for, so I shouldn't spend any time on those literal hands-on things." Right. But you'll need to.

Well, I wonder, like, it's, it's an interesting 'cause for me, I wonder how hands-on... 'Cause there's kind of two worlds for me as a video editor. Like, when I'm actually in the software being a video editor, I wonder if that actually qualifies as kind of hands-on work. Because it is something that was, like, the craft that got me here, and I don't do it as much anymore by nature of being more of the business position. And I love it, but I don't do it as much. My guess is it's really more, like, hands-on adjacent.

Like, truly hands-on, yeah. Yeah, it's- Not hands-on the computer, but, like- Yeah... Out of the way of the screen It's two-dimensional. Like, if you think Right... You're looking at... Which, which program do you use to do editing?

Premiere Pro.

So you look at the Premiere Pro screen and dashboard, and it's two-dimensional. Yes, you're manipulating things with your fingers, but it's not the same as... Like, think about actually shooting the content or video. That's the literal hands-on part. So you're either holding the camera, or it's strapped to you while you're on your bike and you're shooting it or something like that. That's the more actual hands-on part that I want you to not get totally disconnected from. That's why I was mentioning lighting or Setting up the shot with the camera, si and sometimes it's literally touching it or literally getting behind the lens and changing the angles or the width of the shot or something like that. So as you do more and more of the business stuff, don't get totally disassociated from those other parts. So another thing you can do, so let's just assume that work takes you out of that a little bit more than is best for you, like, kind of more than your natural strengths would drive. Work isn't 100% of your day. I mean, you already talked about, your family life and, and having a young daughter. Those are other outlets. And then there's the stuff you just do on your own. So those are times where I'd encourage you to get that... If you haven't been able to use your hands, in your professional life during the course of the day, find chances to do it in your personal life. And frankly, that's usually easy to do when you have young kids 'cause they, they live a very physical existence. So it's about getting down on the floor and playing with them and, building with their blocks or Legos or whatever it is, not just observing them. And that's, I mean, I won't go too much into this, but I think that's good parenting anyway, like- I'm with you, yeah To engage with them the way they are doing stuff, not just talking to them

about it or observing Right, I can build a great Magna-Tile castle, so

And as silly as it sounds, you need to. Like, if you're doing- -huh... Administrative work in the business all day long, man, that Magna-Tile tower is like, it's heaven for you. You need it in a, in a real way. Now it can also cut both ways. If you're doing so much of that stuff in your personal life, like let's say with your daughter, where you really have to be hands-on and again, literal building, tactile way all the time, and maybe chores around the house, it's like, oh, I'm building this and that, and repairing things around the house, then you might get to work and maybe being hands-on a shoot is the last thing you would wanna do because you've kinda run through all of that energy. And then the refuge might be what? Perfectly fine with taking an hour and just doing those emails and administrative stuff on a computer or having just conversations, on the phone rather than being hands-on with stuff. So just gauge that and it's not always gonna be the same. Do you have questions about your result beforehand or that we've been, since we've been talking?

One is the real struggle I'm always after is I'm a very gifted video editor. - But, and I've, I've had the privilege of, like, working, for instance, like, my dream was to work in sports. And for the past, not this year, but for the past five years, I worked with the NFL in the off-season. And it's like you tell your parents, they're so excited. I tell my wife, they're so excited, and it's on it goes on TV, and it's everywhere, and it's millions of views, and it sounds so cool. And I'm like, "Oh, I'm doing what I wanted to do when I was a kid." But when I'm actually doing it is just insane. I'm up late because I care. I'm up so late. There's always massive curveballs coming in left and right, I mean, just over and over, and it's absolutely just a it's a marathon that you have to sprint the whole thing for. And it... Every job I'm on, I think this is the very last one, but I finish, and I think it's so awesome that I was in charge of something that was so cool But it destroys me. And that is what led me to, I was like, "I have to find something," and I don't mean this in necess- something unsexy, something that's not that flashing object that I thought I wanted. And sometimes I'm like, am I, am I not using my talents by opting out of what I was kind of chasing for so long? Because once I actually got a hold of it was on fire and it burned my hands. And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now, is 'cause I'm, like, making a conscious decision to walk away from that world that I was after for so long. And I'm pretty confident in it, but I have lapses in that quite a bit.

If there's part of all that other stuff that still fills your cup that you're like, "Some of it's torture, but I want to do the torture once in a while for these other reasons that I still care about," then great. Do it, but do it with your eyes wide open and still try to make it... so let's talk about the staying up late thing. You can stay up late, like that, if you're planning for it especially, like I know it's gonna happen. Let's say it's an event-generated thing. Like I don't know if you worked on Super Bowl stuff. You said more off-season, but just with NFL, let's say, okay, hey, I know around that event the hours are gonna be crazy because that's just how it is. Things are on tight deadlines, but I can schedule that. I can plan for it. I'm only gonna be sleeping four hours a night, but it's for three weeks or whatever the, you know. And if that works with all the other stuff personally and professionally in your life, then great. You can do that. And if, and I wouldn't even consider that a lapse. I would consider it you knew what you were getting into, so that Fact Finder, you understood the details of it. You were able to plan for it, and then you were able to say, "And now there's gonna be an end. I'm gonna, like, putting a bow on it, putting a pin in it," whatever metaphor, "and I'm not gonna keep doing that all the time." But I, what I would really say, I, my guess is the part that drains you the most is when it's the constant I don't know what to expect. Like forget about the length of time. You're clearly a hard worker. You're not scared of doing that. Yeah, you want to have the balance to do other things in your life that are important to you, but you could do it for shorter chunks. But what will really drain you is when you just don't know So that's where I'd say you, you have a genius in what you do. Don't sell yourself short. Pick your clients and communicate with your clients well enough to understand, "Here's who I work best with. I will work best with you if you can minimize those curveballs, those things, "Hey, let's have a planning session ahead of time with the client," And you can build it into your proposal. And they'll love it because you're communicating with them about what you really need. You're actually... And you can tell them, they'll love it because you'll explain it. "I'm gonna save you time over the course of this project because I'm building an hour in at the front end to ask the right questions, to get the right information. What do you really want out of this?" And you've done this long enough, you can minimize a lot of those curveballs yourself. But, also when you work with clients where they say, "Oh, yeah, we'll do that," and they give... You know, they sit down in the planning session, but they don't answer your questions, they don't get back to you, they do change things up all the time, sure, you can say, "Well, you know, I'm gonna have to charge you more." Like, "Yeah, whatever. I don't care," those are the ones you just need to fire. And it doesn't need to be dramatic, like shouting match kind of fire. It could just be you don't work with them the next time. You find that you're too busy. Because they're not gonna change.

Well, what's nice to reframe a lot of it is it is the unknown that I might kind of get that really uncomfortable feeling, and when I'm operating that where you're just blind to what's next, and that's, that's what I despise and am trying to run away from, and have, frankly, run away from. So, yeah.

And just be confident in that, 'cause you will be the best at what you do, you'll deliver the best things for your clients, and you will operate with a lot less stress when you know, "Yeah, this is who I am and it's what I can count on for myself, and it's what my clients can count on." And again, pick your clients to suit that. Sometimes I see people who don't have that confidence. They're like, "Well, but I... " You mentioned a mentor that you had before in your first job. Sometimes we have great mentors and we think, "Well, I should do it the way my mentor did it." And if the mentor is different than you, it sets up this, "Well, I'm really good at the way I do it, but I should be doing it this other way." No. You should be doing it the way that works for you.

Lovely. That's great. Thank you.

Well, I've had you for a long time. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on. Any last questions or comments or... Actually, one thing I'll ask you. Is there anything that surprised you in the discussion?

Honestly, I really think just the understanding of the unknown. 'Cause there's a lot of times I, when I get that deeply kind of panicky feeling in me and I'm like, "Maybe that's what the chaos controller is," and I'm like, "Oh, I've got to, like, try to make this, make sense of this or figure out how I can get back on track-" And it is the unknown. And for me, it's framing it as the unknown versus framing it as, like, the client did something stupid. It's really just that I'm in a spot where there's not a lot of clarity, and I think I need to be able to plan for that, sit with that, and not be very reactionary when that does come. And setting up a system for me to where I create space for that, which I don't think I've been doing.

So Yeah, absolutely do that. Plan for it. Put chunks of time on the calendar. Take... And some of those chunks of time are to reflect on, 'cause you've been doing this a while. It's almost none of this is new. Put it in categories. So it is one of the ways when you thrive as a chaos controller is realizing this isn't chaotic. This is just a slight twist on that thing that happened two years ago or 10 years ago. And then you can you can kind of go, "Oh yeah you're right. I've, I've done this. I've done this six times. And what? Two of those weren't so great. Four of them were awesome. I'm gonna be awesome again." Well, cool. Thanks so much for being with us.

And yeah, it's been great to chat.