Ask Your Questions: A 7-6-5-3 Kolbe A Index Result Unpacked | Private Sessions

You are somebody who needs to be able to ask questions, to be able to get to the bottom of things, do research, become an expert. First of all, does that sound like you to you?

That's so true. It's so interesting to me how you just met me and you already are saying things that are so true.

This is Katie. She's a TV news producer who spends her days managing chaos and digging for answers. The people in her life naturally lean on her strengths, even when they don't realize it. Today, I'm giving her permission to take more of the credit and trust that her instincts are perfect for who she is. You would be a helpful presence for other people because they sense that, hey, Katie's not the one who's creating this stressful, chaotic situation. She's dealing with it.

That is a huge battle I deal with all the time. It's always doing it myself and always saying yes.

Part of what I want you to understand is when we talk about your full result, it's finding, okay, great. This is who I am. I don't need to change that. How do I make that work for what I'm doing now and what I want to do in the future? Where I'll start is you're at what we would call an Answer Authority. You are somebody who needs to be able to ask questions, to be able to get to the bottom of things, do research, become an expert. Th- there's a fuller picture to it, but we kinda like to start a lot of times by just focusing in on one key thing, 'cause if you think about everything all at once, it's like, oh wait, hold on, let me just figure out one. So just first of all, does that sound like you to you?

Yes, that does sound like me. I'm a journalist, and my parents are journalists, so I grew up with needing to know everything. I asked a million questions. It's almost like I interview people. And yeah, so an answer authority, it sounds like me, yeah.

Yeah, so that's in what we would call the Fact Finder Action Mode®. You're a, you're a seven, which the number really just shows where on a range you are. There's no better or worse to the numbers, but yeah, it's saying that you start the problem-solving process, you start taking action by getting information, gathering and sharing information. So when somebody asks you a question, if you don't know the answer… Look, if you already know the answer, fine, you'll just give them the answer. If you don't know the answer, it would be very natural for you to say, "You know what? Let me look into that and I'll get back to you." What would put you under some stress is if they ask you a question and you don't know the answer yet, and you say, "Oh, well, let me look at it and get back to you," and they say, "No. No, no, no. You need to tell me right now." And you're like, "Oh my gosh." That's not, you're not a just guess. You are a, "I need to know the answer." Does that bring up any questions that you wanna ask?

Not questions, just more anecdotally. You know, both my dad was a sports editor and director for, just recently retired, but for like 35 years, and my mom was a features reporter as well, so very different styles. And then I went into TV producing, which is super analytical, but, and research-based, but also storytelling-based as well in terms of how you're piecing together the stories that you're telling in the newscast. And I would say going back to one of the first things that you said about when someone asks me something and if I don't have an answer, and they're, they like don't wanna wait for me to get the answer, that would stress me out, 'cause I want to always give the correct answer, and I like to know a little bit about a lot of things. I like being well-rounded And have little facts and details about a lot of different things. So I think that probably or relates a lot to journalist- journalism, and Then also just growing up in that way in my family as well.

So do you have an approach or tactics that you use when you are under stress where somebody asks you for details and information, you don't have it, and they don't give you the time? I mean, you said, yeah, it would be stressful. What do you do in that situation?

Ooh, it's a really good question.

Or do you try to avoid that by always being uber prepared?

I might, like, kind of get them involved with me on looking up the piece of information, 'cause one of the big things about day-to-day interactions and people who aren't in my line of work is there's, there are so many different sources, and I like to be kind of a conduit and be like, "Did you know that there's this local source?" And, "Oh, you know, this is a perfect YouTube page to get all of that kind of information." And so I think I would probably, like, wanna take them with me on like, like, "Let's just do this together. Why not?" Rather than, "Well, it's not off the top of my head, so that's it."

Millions of people have discovered their natural way of taking action. What's yours? Go to kolbe.com and take the Kolbe A™ Index to find out. Well, let's talk about other parts of who you are, because this is just one of four Action Modes or four parts of your conative self for Kolbe results that we look at. So the other three are Follow Thru, Quick Start, and Implementor. And so the numbers of those are six in Follow Thru, five in Quick Start, and three in Implementor. But let me tell a little more about what each of those mean rather than just the numbers. So the Follow Thru with your six, that's… So the numbers go from one to 10. So six is, you're toward the end of the spectrum, but only a little bit that has to do with being systematic and structured and organized. So you don't start action taking or problem solving by putting everything into a structure and coming up with a plan and a process and a system. But you also don't push back on that. You kind of accommodate that leaning toward being more systematic and structured. So when you pair that with your Fact Finder, you getting information and doing research the natural thing for you to do would be get the information, do the research, and that might include, oh, what have other people done in terms of creating systems that might be useful for this kind of situation? So whether that's producing a segment for on air or social media, you don't have to create the system, but it's natural for you to find one and plug yourself into it. And if you've been working with one that isn't quite doing it for you, you'll take a similar approach. Hey, what have, what has somebody else done? This isn't working. This system isn't working. But rather than just abandoning it and not having any system, you'll find something else that can be a substitute.

In what I know can be a chaotic environment in a TV situation…

with your Follow Thru, you don't push and create chaos typically. You more control it. You are toward the end of the spectrum, again, that creates systems and structure rather than just kind of free-forming everything. So I think that helps you accommodate some of that, some of the unstructured, times that can happen in a newsroom. So some of it's the unstructured, not so systematic, but then let's also talk about this Quick Start part of you. So Quick Start is how we deal with risk, unknowns, experimentation. So you're a five, which is right in the middle. So if it were a two in Quick Start, you would really be somebody who stabilizes, who would be in a chaotic situation just kind of push back and be like, "Nope, I'm not gonna deal with this. I'm gonna find what's working or what should be working and stick with that." The other end of the spectrum is somebody who really almost insists on… I mean, it sounds terrible to say insists on chaos, but I would say insists on experimenting and trying out new things and just doing things differently. You accommodate those extremes. So again, in a newsroom, and maybe I should pause. Am I correct that your work environment can get chaotic?

Oh, yes, absolutely. Breaking news, weather, you name it. Chaos happens all the time.

Okay. So yeah, you're not creating that chaos with your Kolbe result, with your MO, but you do naturally accommodate that. So I would think you would be a helpful presence for other people in the office because they sense that, hey, Katie's not the one who's creating this stressful, chaotic situation. She's dealing with it, though. She's dealing with it pretty naturally. Because you accommodate it, sometimes people won't… They'll kind of know it, but they won't necessarily give you conscious credit for it. They just would unconsciously gravitate towards you in that situation like, "Hey, Katie will be a calming source in this." But because you're not super out front with the way you're dealing with the chaos, you just kind of handle it, you accommodate it, they won't necessarily think about later like, "Oh, who would you go to?" And like, "It would be Katie." They just do that in the situation.

So it- That's so true.

Is it? How… Like, give me an example that you can think of.

Oh, man. I'm sure I have so many. We often say that this is a thankless industry because if you do something wrong, you hear about it. If you do something right, then you just keep going. And it can be on a, on a small scale and it can be on a massive scale. And you know, sometimes When you are often, like myself, kind of managing and handling high stress or an uncertain maybe piece of news breaking or an error or what- whatever, or we need to fact-check something that we heard that from someone else, it's so easy for someone to just grab it and run with it and then move on because everything is so in the moment in our business. And yeah, there, there have been many times where, like, maybe people will be talking about a project or a specific moment and like, I'll be like, "Oh, well, I was definitely a part of that. but you know what? That's okay, 'cause at least it all went smoothly." And I just feel like that happens all the time. And it's so funny that you picked up on that just from me scoring a five. And as you were explaining, I do feel like a five. I feel like right smack in the middle because I internally, when there's chaos and uncertainty, you know, I'll feel a little bit unsteady like anyone might. And I might think, "Oh gosh, what, what am I gonna do? What's our team gonna do? This is so unknown." But I try to stay pretty calm and don't wanna panic, and I want my team to trust me and I wanna solve the problem. So I feel like a five is pretty much perfect.

Yeah. And well, here's the thing. Your result is perfect for you because it's you. So it sounds like it's also pretty perfect for what you're doing in those situations and the role you're supposed to play. I'd encourage you to find, usually subtle ways work best, but let people know by pointing out to them the positive role that you play because fives and even the sixes, so for both of those where you're in that mid-range, often those strengths that you have, they get very used, but they can be unappreciated sometimes. So if you find subtle ways, so you don't wanna like, "Look at me, everybody. I'm a superstar." But if you can just point out to somebody like, "Oh my gosh," you know, sometimes it's after the fact, "That was crazy yesterday, and I'm so glad I was able to help keep things kinda going smoothly without it spinning out of control." And I make that distinction because with your with your really great skill and talent for being that information-gathering person, a lot of times you already have the information necessary, and you're so quick with it. A lot of times people misunderstand when we talk about Fact Finder and they think, "Oh, you're gonna be slow and deliberate because you've gotta research everything." But if you've already researched a situation where you've been in it six times, what to count on next, or you know the questions that'll come up you're quick to act. So, but there are times where you don't know what you need to know, and you spot that, and you can just say, "You know what?" Let's pull somebody else in because I think this would be a great time for that person to thrive. And that's also, I think, a really great way to be a respected leader because people see you don't just try to do everything when you ought to know that this isn't the best time for you.

Yeah.

And people appreciate that.

Yeah. That is so interesting because that is a huge battle I deal with all the time. It's, it's always doing it myself and taking on and always saying yes, and also not giving myself enough credit. I think I'm, I'm a bit of a people pleaser, and one thing is delegation, for sure. Like, I recently was a lead on a massive project and received so much credit and whatnot, but the hardest part was not learning when to bring other people in and to take, to take some of it off of me. And it's not an ego thing. I think I just feel like this was assigned to me, and I wanna just do the best job as- at that I can and prove that I can handle all that comes at me. But that was my biggest thing was, like, delegating and getting others involved, and it doesn't show weakness or, like, lack of being able to do something, but it shows just understanding my own limits and then wanting other people to be a part of it. That is definitely a massive struggle. Yeah.

So some of the things you're bringing in are what are part of the affective part of the mind. So we've been talking about the conative part, which is the way you take action. The affective is the, you know, kind of the emotional side, what you prefer, value and, you know, the ego is part of the affective part of the mind. And I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. Most of the time when people have a hard time delegating, it's not an ego-driven, like, "Oh, I'm better than everybody else at doing everything, so how could I possibly delegate?" Sometimes it's, I mean, to the sense- in the sense it's an ego-driven thing. Sometimes it's the opposite, like, "-oh, I better do everything so that person who's my boss," typically, "they see that I'm capable of doing everything." Well, first of all, you aren't capable of doing everything 'cause there aren't enough hours in the day. So you've gotta be a little more strategic. And also, and this connects back to what I was saying about knowing the right times to say, "I'm not the best person to do this." And when you do that wisely, people respect the fact that you are self-aware, that you don't have to get credit for everything that gets done. The best leaders bring the right people in at the right time so the team, the organization can be even more successful and accomplish great things. I mean, individually you can accomplish a lot. Individually, you're, there's a cap. You know, there's a ceiling on how much you can do, mostly because of that number of hours of the day, but also, you know, even the most brilliant people in the world aren't brilliant about everything, and they need to bring other smart people in who just know things they don't know. And then also conatively, and that's where, you know, where we come in is you need people who complement your conative strengths because there are times, let's say with your, like the Quick Start. So we were talking about driving, kind of risk-taking, experimenting, unknowns, where in the more negative sense, driving chaos, 'cause it can turn into that Although you accommodate and you can certainly do that when you need to, 'cause your conative strengths aren't about what you can or can't do, you don't typically do that. So when you see a situation that, oh my gosh, this really does call for somebody who's going to just have those crazy we've never tried them ideas and just jump right on that, you should bring that person in, and then you will get credit for being a team player. And the outcome will be better for everybody because you were so smart and self-aware and not so ego-driven that you were able to let that happen. So, yeah. Well, I'm glad. And you're, you're already sensing it, so honestly, you're way ahead of most people who don't. I would say that to them, they'd be like, "I don't know what you're talking about 'cause I've never seen that play out." So kudos to you for knowing that's happening.

You know, my boss is also hinted at it as well 'cause she's, she's, she's been choosing me for some specific leadership positions recently to see how I handle them. But definitely, 'cause it relates to my personal life, too, you know? Delegating and bringing other people in for other personal related things is also something that I need to work on.

So tell me about the personal stuff that you're thinking of, to the extent you wanna share.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's like, like for instance, we just bought a house in January and there's a lot of house projects to do, and we have a list and we try to divvy up the list. And just because, you know, something's kind of on my side of the list doesn't mean I have to know everything and like, and make all of the right decisions. I can consult a friend, I can consult my dad, I can consult, you know, ChatGPT or whatever. But some, for some reason, I just, my instinct is I'm just gonna like try this and solve it all on my own. It's just, it's a, it's a broad example, but it's a real one. Yeah.

No, that's a perfect example. And it's reminding me that we didn't cover the third or the fourth, sorry, Action Mode, which is Implementor, which is the way we deal with physical, tangible, like literally hands-on things that we need to deal with. So your strength in Implementor is being, is you envision. You imagine solutions. You see them in your mind's eye rather than physically constructing them. So if you're talking about projects around the house- You shouldn't have the list that is the stuff that needs to be physically built and constructed and created. Again, this isn't a can or can't. I'm sure you can build things, you know, hammer and nail and screwdriver and all that kind of stuff, but that's not as natural for you. And it's interesting when you describe your approach to the things that are on the household kinda to-do or project list, the first thing you talk about is doing the research on all of them. It's looking them up. It's, it's going to your dad or ChatGPT or YouTube videos or whatever. Yeah, because that's your Fact Finder. The way you deal with those things is, "Okay, before we actually do anything, what do I need to know to tackle this?" So one suggestion that I have for you, and it's you and your husband, right? So for you and your husband, divide the list up smartly. So divide it up based on… And I don't know his Kolbe results, so I can't say, you know, oh, he should do all of the hands-on building, constructing because what, he might be a three in Fact Finder as well, in which case what I would say is find somebody you can hire to do those to the extent you can afford it. Now, sometimes it's just, oh my gosh, we just need to do these things and we don't have the money to hire an XYZ person. But a lot of times you can. But so where he's different than you Make the list reflect that. Like, hey, where are the places where if he is more of that hands-on physically building stuff, that's more his stuff. So maybe the list is about the stages of the project rather than the project altogether. Once you understand it about each other, like if you are exactly the same or different, it almost doesn't matter. What he needs to understand about you is when you pepper him with questions and want more information and detail, it's not 'cause you don't trust him or you think he's dumb, it's 'cause you just need the information. So, but people don't necessarily know that. Like, that's where the effective part of the mind comes in.

Yeah.

A lot of times we do feel threatened when we are asked questions. It's like a challenge.

Yes.

And you do that to people.

Yes.

And so you need to be aware of it, and if you sense from him or others that your question asking, they're starting to get their back up, like, "Why is she asking me this? I already gave her the answer," or, "She should know that I know the answer," you can back up a second and just tell them, like, "Hey, I'm sorry if there's so many questions. It's really about me. I just, I have this insatiable need for more information." Yeah. "I'm sure you were right and you had all the reasons and justifications for what you just told me, but…" Do you do that? Have you sensed people sometimes getting defensive?

Yeah, definitely, especially, like, early in our relationship and not only would I do it to him, but he, my parents would too. Be- because again, they're journalists and we have natural curiosity, and that's how I get to know people. And also, slightly related but a little bit different, to that is I might have recently made a friend or met someone new, and we might hang out together, and I might come home and say to, say to my husband, "They barely asked me any questions." Like, don't they know? Like, don't they wanna know about me? Don't they wanna ask me questions? And he'll have to remind me, "That's not how everybody communicates. That's not how everybody gets to know people. Not every single friendship or date or whatever needs to be an interview. Sometimes you just get to know someone by hanging out with them." And I'll be like, "Oh yeah, that's so true." One thing that I was curious Is, now that I know more about my instincts, are there certain, like, people that I should kind of avoid at work or a particular kind of task that I should maybe think about how I might react to it based off of my results?

Yeah. So let's take the people side first. No, I wouldn't in general say, gosh, there are people to avoid. I think it's knowing when to work with people. So the people who are more like you, if you sense that they have a very similar Kolbe result to yours, that's a good mentor for you. It's somebody to learn from. It's somebody to work with in that sense, like maybe as an understudy if you're earlier, or maybe you're the mentor for that person. So you don't need to avoid them, but you don't necessarily want to work with them all the time because then you might duplicate efforts and not get as far on a project. So if it's two of you who are exactly the same, and it's the, and it's only the two of you on a project, then you're gonna have bigger gaps. So then let's talk about the people who are very different from you. So sometimes they can be the most frustrating to work with because they have such a different approach and that can be stressful. So it's learning to manage that, and it's important to learn to manage it because a lot of times those are the people you need to work with the most. So let's take where you can have kind of the biggest difference. So in, it's really two areas for you. It's in, with your Fact Finder, it would be somebody who They push back on you when you ask them questions. They're like, "No, no, no, no, okay, forget about it." Like, "This is what I told you we're gonna do. We're gonna do this." And they may be a boss, they may be a peer, they, you know, it… That doesn't really matter. I mean, it changes the dynamic and the way you need to react to them and work with them. But th- an easy thing to do is just get stressed and have conflict with that person. Like, "Oh, they drive me nuts because every time I ask questions, they put me off. I don't get the information I need on a project." And that's real. I'm not saying, "Oh, you don't know what you're talking about, this is just a good thing." That is a real issue that you have to deal with. So maybe avoid them if they're the person giving you an assignment and they never give you enough information to be successful, and that's really important for you. Maybe find somebody else to work with who's giving you assignments if you can. But if you're working on the project together, they'll actually help push you to be better because your audience… This is like my mom. I was talking earlier about how my mom was that person where if you expected her to give you lots of information and detail and facts and figures, she'd push back on you, and she'd get to the essence of what needed to be communicated. And the audience needs that a lot of time. I know one of my challenges is I can give so much information and detail, I can put people to sleep, and I lose their interest because I go too long and give them too much. You might do that, so find people who have that different take on it and work with them. But not 100% of the time, 'cause again, it can be stressful. So it's this weird juxtaposition of we need people who are different, but it can also be the more stressful, it can be combative or they can be a con- conflict kind of situation. But it doesn't need to be, so figure out ways to manage that. And then with your Implementor, that's the other area, because you're a three, you can find people who are on the very opposite end of the spectrum. So somebody who's a, you know, nine, an Implementor, is all about the physical, tactile, tactile part of what you guys are doing. So- You know, in a TV context, that means they're gonna be all about the actual visuals. They need to be outside. Like, if it's in the studio, they care about the equipment, and they're going to make sure that everything is placed just the right way. And lean on that, 'cause that's not your forte. You're about en- envisioning it, imagining it, and not constructing it. Also understand if you're working with that person, so you as a producer, that person needs to get out of the studio and do live shots on site. Whether the story demands it or not, they demand it. They need it. They will be at their best, and you will be surprised… Maybe not surprised, 'cause you work with them long enough that you know you can count on it. But they're the kind of person who you don't know how they do it, but they just have this sense for, yeah, this is where we should, should set the shot up. We're gonna get the right visuals. They just know it. And you might, with your seven in Fact Finder, you might wanna ask them, "Tell me all the reasons you knew this was just right." And they'll be like, "Look, Katie, I just knew." So seek those people out and also understand you need to give them the freedom to do it their way when they're doing it- Mm-hmm very differently than you.

Great advice. Definitely relates to a lot of different roles in my, in my office. We have photographers and directors and people who come in, physically do the job, go home. My job is come in, think, brainstorm, plan, email, craft, and then give them the thing for them to physically do, so.

Yeah. Well, that's good. That sounds like the right role for you.

Yeah, definitely. Yep. And I also even just recently took on a new role too. I was this planning producer, that was my title, literally planning producer. Planning every segment, who we're talking to, when it's gonna be, how long it's gonna be. And I recently took on a new role that is less that, a little bit more of the nitty-gritty, a little… It's all about streaming and less of the traditional cable broadcast, and more about streaming platforms on digital. And it's way more of a traditional producer in the a- analytical and the lines and the timing, rather than the planning. So it's a new muscle that I'm learning to flex again, 'cause I used to do it a lot, like six years ago. But I kind of am able to use what I learned as a planner and implement it in the new role too. I love that.

That's great. What other questions, or what have you thought of since we've been talking? I just… It's so interesting to me how you just met me, and you already

are saying things that are so true. You know, th- it seems like magic sometimes. It's a little weird.

But if you think about it, yes, I just met you, but we asked a bunch of really good questions. I mean, that's what the Kolbe Index is all about. It's knowing questions to ask that get at these who are you when you're free to be yourself in terms of the way you take action. So really, you told me so much about yourself. We just learned the right questions to ask and how to interpret that so that we can give you back the insight. You know, so you've had these things, it's just you didn't know what they were called or how to tap into them. And so it's kind of fun for me because, yeah, we get this reaction a lot like, "Oh my gosh, you just met me and you know all this stuff?" It's weird, but it's 'cause you took the time.

Yeah. That's true. Yeah, it was, it was very interesting. And when you get the results back, at first it takes a second to kinda digest it, 'cause it's very- To the point and everything has a definition. But being able to talk through it with you is more helpful because it's a little more anecdotal, and gives you actual examples and ways that I can take it and then implement it. Like when I go to work tomorrow, I'll probably try to talk to someone who's a little bit different than me.

Oh, good. I love that. So Katie, I love that. Thanks again for taking all the time to be with us and for answering the questions that we asked you that helped me know what to talk to you about. What are a couple of things that you can see yourself doing with this? Whether it's tomorrow or it's a week from now, what are things that it's sparked in your mind?

I think it's given me some more insight into the kind of person that I am both in and out of the office, and it's, it was surprising in some ways, and it was also a, like reaffirming in other ways of I know how my brain works, and yeah, there's a reason why my brain works that way, and there's a reason why I'm in the role that I'm in. I think as I progress in my career, because I am trying to progress, I just got a promotion, but I'm always thinking about the next step. I think I'm gonna use these results to kind of help me be a little bit more engaged with my coworkers, especially ones who rate differently than me, and challenge myself to, on a little bit more of a specific side, challenge myself to delegate, to work with others and not take on too much of the, of the work, which I'm known to do. And yeah, I think probably You know, divvy up, divvy up my job in a way that I know I work really well with other people in terms of envisioning and being more physically involved, if that makes sense. So I think it was very insightful and I'm gonna work hard. It's gonna be hard for me to, you know, pat myself on the back, but I am gonna, I am gonna challenge myself to do that.

Good. I'm glad you will, 'cause it's really about… I mean, yeah, it is, the patting yourself on the back is important for everybody, you know, to give yourself credit for the things that you do really well. There's almost an epidemic of imposter syndrome, which goes by different names. I mean, that's the most common name, but it's also sometimes people just feeling like, "Oh, you know, I've done well, but I don't really know why, so I'm not so sure I can repeat the successes," or, "Maybe I don't deserve as much credit as other people have given me." And sometimes that's an affective thing. Like, some people just feel like sometimes they've been taught, like, you shouldn't take too much credit for things. You know, you should be selfless or, you know, to be a team player means deferring to other people. So that sometimes it's that stuff. But what, from a conative perspective, what I see sometimes is people, 'cause they don't know where it came from necessarily, like we've been talking about, look, this is who you are. These are your strengths. When you have the freedom to ask questions and to accommodate systems and structure and experimentation versus, you know, being a stabilizer, when you get to do all that stuff, you're gonna win again and again and again. And it's not a fluke. It's not, oh, you got lucky one time, but you can't repeat it. It's like, no, that's who you are. And the times when you maybe don't have that freedom and you're just grinding it out, look, I'm not encouraging you to put yourself in that situation over and over again. I want you to have the freedom to use the strengths that are best suited for you to be successful. But I'll also say that you talked about the muscle memory or, you know, learning the, getting your muscles strong, learning new stuff. There are times when, okay, this isn't a great fit for me, but I'm grinding it out. I'm doing the hard work. And you can also pat yourself on the back for, you know, I know that wasn't necessarily the easiest thing for me, but I did it. I persevered through it. I don't want you to, again, put yourself in that situation all the time because it's unnecessarily hard, and it's not what's gonna make you truly operate at your peak levels. But you should pat yourself on the back for, "I got through that, and I did a really good job even though it was harder for me than maybe it needed to be," or, "It's harder for me than it was for other people." So I see patterns in the way people come to this imposter syndrome thing from a conative standpoint. Sometimes it's, "I see everybody else having success in a way that's not natural for me, so I think I should be like them, but I'm not." They kind of, you know, you have this inherent sense of I'm different, so I'm not ever gonna be as successful as them, and so whatever I've achieved, it's not really… Nonsense. That's where I was talking about there are different ways to be a great journalist, so find the path that works for you. Another way is, "Well, I did it my way, but I don't know that I can do it that way again," sometimes because other people are telling me, "Why, that seemed too easy for you. Like, it wasn't hard." So I didn't see the hard work, so you think, "Well, it wasn't hard enough for me, so clearly I just got lucky." No, no, no. You were in a situation that you were able to thrive in. That's why it was easy. That's actually the easiest one to do sustainably because you can do it over and over again. And again, that's that patting on the back for good for you for setting yourself up for success. Now do it again. And if other people think, "Oh my gosh, that's too easy, and Katie's not…" Don't worry. They'll, they'll figure it out that, yeah, you just keep winning over and over and over again.

It's great advice.

I am super excited for you to go back to work tomorrow and kill it.

Thank you. Yeah, that was perfect advice.

Great. Well, thanks again for being here.

It's been really fun.