The Power of a Plan: A 7-8-2-4 Kolbe A Index Result Unpacked | Private Sessions

You're a look before you leap, not a just do it kind of person. What are you waiting for? It's not that you're waiting, it's that I need some information.

I almost find comfort in that. I also sometimes view that as a possible, I don't know if weakness is the correct word.

It's not a weakness, it's who you are. This is Raymond. He's an elementary school teacher with a plan for everything. He acts as the rock for his students and his family. Sometimes he feels like he's missing out.

When I was first starting out teaching, I had some lesson plans made for me and given to me, and I bombed in them and I didn't realize until after. My strength in the classroom comes from being prepared. You can see these videos of me when it's someone's lesson and when it's mine, it's like two different people.

Especially looking at the entirety of your Kolbe result. If you're in a chaotic environment, your instinct is, "Hey, let's figure this out," and how can you bring some normalcy and some consistency to that chaotic environment? Today, we're talking about how Raymond can lean into his strengths and avoid good advice gone bad in the classroom. Well, let's jump in a little bit with your Kolbe result, and I'll kind of link that in a little bit to moving schools. And your Natural Advantage™ is you're a Master of Planning. It's a talent, a skill. It's also a need in this case, 'cause your conative strengths are all about the way you naturally take action, and you need to have the freedom to be yourself and to do things the way that works best for you. Look, we all live in the real world. It doesn't mean 100% of the time we're all gonna to get to do exactly what is most natural and, normal for us. But to the extent you can, you need to be able to plan, you know, have a timeframe, look out into the future and say, "Okay, here's where I am. Here's where I want to go. What are the steps to get me," you know, the in-between parts. That is, that is really what you do. So I would imagine for something like moving to a new school, it's not like you wake up one morning or, you know, you have a conversation with your spouse and go, "Oh, yeah, let's just change this and just jump into it." Is that true? Like, in this transition, was this something you thought about and planned for?

Oh, absolutely. Like, you nailed it. It was, it was something that I, like, very meticulously planned and took multiple steps to try to make sure that it was successful.

Yeah. Well, and that's great because sometimes we all feel pressure, from different people. Could be from a spouse, could be from people at work, could be friends. Like, you know, your friends might see you with a long commute and young kids and say, "Hey, you know what, Raymond? Just, you need to change. Just now, like, pick up the phone. You know, I have this buddy at this other school. I think, you know, they're looking for somebody. Just do it." And they mean well, and it might be, you know, might be the first step, but for you it would be, "Okay, great. Why don't you tell me a little bit about the school? Let me do some research. Let me figure out the plan." You know, you need to know about this well in advance. So I see you nodding, so I'm glad it sounds like you have the opportunity to do it that way this time.

Yeah. You said research, and that's definitely something that speaks to me. Like, if I'm gonna jump into something, right, I'm gonna, like, research it before I dive in, and then that helps me actually make my plan.

Well, and that's actually, we'll kind of expand. In full, your Kolbe results, and we do it by four what we call Action Modes®. Each Action Mode is how you deal with a different set of, kind of taking action. So the Fact Finder Action Mode is how we deal with gathering and sharing information. You're a seven. The Follow Thru Action Mode is how we deal with systems and structure. You're an eight. So for both of those, that means you kind of initiate action with those two. The third Action Mode is Quick Start, and you're a two, so your strength, as we talked about, is the way you are open-ended and adaptable. And then the fourth one is Implementor, and you're a four, so you're in that mid-range. You kind of accommodate the need for physical touch, construction, building. So yeah, overall, your Kolbe result seven eight two four, which is really just a short description of your strengths and the way you naturally take action. I mean, I talked about your Natural Advantage being the master of planning, but your bigger, fuller picture Kolbe result is, yeah, you back up your initial strength and kind of the way you usually start problem-solving or taking action on something is putting it into a plan, a system, a structure rather than just… So again, let's take the teacher move, the professional move. You'll think about it and before, typically, before you even do the research, you'll think a few steps ahead. You'll think about, "Okay, what might this look like? What would I need to get there?" You know, "What do I need to do?" And then it's, "Oh, okay, well, yeah, I, I'm motivated. I wanna do this for whatever reason." In this case, shorter commute, more time with family. Now let's map that out, and then you typically go to the next stage, which is, okay, now that I have a plan for what I want to, you know, how I want this to happen over the next year or two, now let's do the research. What are the schools closer to home? You know, what kind of school is it? So for you, it wouldn't be just a matter of I'll take any old job. It would be I wanna know about the curriculum. I wanna know about the people I'd be working with. You know, is it team teaching? Is it not? You'd want all those answers before you even submitted an application, whereas other people would be like, "Yep, I'm gonna make this move. Let's start applying. I'll figure it out later." Is that how this worked for you?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It was definitely a situation where I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't the right situation, right? Like I had to analyze it first and be like, "Okay, is this move the right move?" Right? Have those conversations with my wife, right? And then act on that.

Yeah. Yeah, so that second part is your Fact Finder. The first, the planning part is what we call your Follow Thru, and so you're an eight in Follow Thru. You're a seven in Fact Finder, so you still are, you know, you have this drive to get information, facts, figures, details, get them for yourself, also to share them with people. So in discussions with your wife, and I don't know her result, has she taken a Kolbe A™ Index?

No, that's actually fascinating. I hadn't thought about that. I would love to see what her results would be.

All right. Well, we'll get you a coupon- Yeah … so that she can take it, and if you want, we can have another quick chat maybe with the three of us. So neither of us needs to guess at her result. We'll just let her do it. But with you in those discussions, A, you'd need to have a plan. B, you would probably share that plan, and you'd share the stuff you found. So some people, A, wouldn't do tons of research or maybe, you know, even if they start with the plan and the system and, "Hey, I have this three-year vision for what I want my career and my family life to look like." You share all that. You go into detail. You go into depth. You would, you would talk about it with your wife. Again, look, we all have different relationships with spouses, too, and again, I don't know hers, but for you it would be important to say, "Here's what I found. Here's what my research. Here's my thinking." Even if she doesn't need it, and then, and for some spouses it's, "Oh my gosh, you know, I really wish my husband would stop. I have enough. Like, he wants to do it." "I'm supportive. Like, don't tell me all the things you've researched." Yeah. "I trust you." Whereas other people, like if it were the opposite, if your wife were considering, if she were considering a move, you'd ask questions. You want the information. And I'd also say, like in a personal life, that can be tricky. So if your wife, frankly, whatever her Kolbe result is, given the kind of person you are where you need the information, your questions and needing that information, it's not a matter of, "Well, I don't trust you," or, "I don't think you're making a good decision." It's like, "Well, yeah, I trust you implicitly. Sounds like you're making a great decision. I still need the information and the details for myself, having nothing to do with you." So that's one area where I'll say be a little aware, and this is where I'd love to hear what your wife's results are, and even if you don't share them with me, just for the two of you to talk about. But honestly, no matter what her results are, if she's also an initiating Fact Finder, she's more likely to share information with you, you know, whatever research she's doing and details and information. She's also more likely to then ask you questions. But if she's asking questions, even though you're an initiating Fact Finder and you'll naturally share the information, it can also sometimes sound like a challenge rather than just curiosity. So I don't know that that's the dynamic you guys have, but just be aware of that. So if she pushes back on you sometimes asking questions and, "Honey, why don't, why don't you believe me on this?" Take a deep breath, step back and say, "Hey, gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean for it to come off like that. It's just I'm really curious, I'm really invested and involved," and turn it around. So instead of somebody feel… Instead of her, in this case, feeling like you're challenging her, it really is a sign that you're engaged, you're involved. When you disconnect from something is when you don't ask questions and need information. So in some respects she should be more concerned if you don't ask questions. Yeah. 'Cause then it's like, "Don't you care?" Yeah. Like, "I'm making this big life decision even though it's more for me than for us. Don't you wanna know?" so just something to think about.

I love that example you used, 'cause that's, as a teacher, you want your students asking questions all the time, and if they're not, they're usually not engaged, right? So that's just, right?

But also, yeah, so, let's get back to you rather than you and your wife, especially 'cause I don't know her Kolbe result. But your role as a teacher, teachers have such an, A, important, but, B, kinda tricky role sometimes. How many, how many kids do you have in your classroom or will you have next year? So actually I don't have my roster for next year, but my last classroom was 18. 18. And it was actually a split class of 5th and 6th combined. Okay. So relatively small for most teachers to only have 18 in a room, so that's fantastic. But even at a relatively small 18, you've got all kinds of different kids. You don't get to control for that, so let's take your Follow Thru. So… And we'll have to get to the rest of your Kolbe result. I was gonna say all of it, but let's, let's stick with your Follow Thru. So you naturally plan and have a system and a structure in an organization, and some of those 18 kids undoubtedly shared that Kolbe result or that conative strength to be systematic and organized and plan and, you know, live within those structures that you probably create for your classroom. Others of them are at the opposite end of the spectrum. So one of the tricky things for a teacher is, look, you can't, even at 18, you can't individually customize everything for every student. And yet I feel strongly that a teacher's role is to be flexible enough, and we can talk a little bit about good ways for teachers and others to do that, flexible enough to help get the most out of all different kinds of kids in your classroom. So where it's a student who is naturally systematic and structured and organized like you, that's probably easier because for almost everybody, especially before you really get to know Kolbe and even this concept of what conation is, you typically lead with your strength and kind of impose that on the environment that you're in. So in this case, you professionally, makes total sense for you to have a plan and to tell your kids, "Hey, for the unit," which is gonna be the next, whatever, four weeks, let's say, "here's what it looks like." And you tell them, and even though you're, you're teaching fifth and sixth grade, you still might have something that looks like a college syllabus. Even if you don't share it all with them, but my guess is you probably would. Like, "Hey, here's what we're gonna be doing. We're talking about…" You know, you teach language arts some, right? Yes. Yeah, so it could be, "Oh, here's our next grammar unit, and here's what it's gonna look like over the next four weeks." And the kids in your classroom that share your eight in follow through, they just eat that up. That is so helpful for them to see a system and a structure and be able to plan out mentally the next four weeks. I don't wanna go overboard with this. They're fifth and sixth graders, so that doesn't mean they're going to put it all into the, their own system and structure and… But you'll be able to tell, especially now that you know all this, and Eric has come in and talked to the kids at this school, so you've seen his talk also. But keep in mind, some of the kids in the classroom, they start hearing that plan, and if they can start feeling like, "Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be put in a straitjacket. This is, there's no opportunity for me to freestyle and to do things differently and to, you know, get partway through and find shortcuts." And for any leader, and in this case you being a leader as a teacher, we need to be aware of those things. It's not about taking you out of your game. I would never say, "Hey, Raymond, you shouldn't plan as much as you do." No, that's what's gonna make you a great teacher is when you get to use that strength that you have. But this tricky role of a teacher is you also need to find a way for your teaching to accommodate all those kids. Again, it can't be infinitely variable for each one, but it's gotta be open-ended enough that those kids who aren't like you can also thrive. Yeah. And that's a tricky thing. So yeah, starting, you know, using the example of the planning. So I'll just describe myself. It's been a while since I was a fifth or sixth grader, but I'm the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of systems and structure from you. So, you know, thinking of myself in a situation like that, just little things like having a, oh, when you turn in your homework, and I remember this very distinctly, in the upper right-hand corner, you need to put your name, followed by the teacher name, followed by the class period. So like fourth grade, you know, Mr. Jameson, you know, David kolbe, Mr. Jameson, period four. And that was the requirement, and if I didn't do that and I turned my homework in without that, I got zero credit. Well, that happened probably more than once. But I know it happened at least once, and it stung because I cared about my grades, and I got a zero on that homework assignment. Well, I can go and complain to the teacher, "That's not fair." First of all, as my parents love to tell me, "Life isn't fair, so get over it." Secondly, It doesn't matter whether you think it's fair, and frankly, it is fair. Did Mr. Jameson tell you the expectations? Yes, he did. Okay, so it's not unfair. It may not work to your advantage because that's not normal for you, but he told you it is an expectation, so you just need to live with it So what are some solutions? Like for a student, for me in this case, my parents helped me with, "You know what, david? You're not gonna remember to do that every time, so you also have that, that binder, the notebook." You know? It was this old school time when it was all paper and pencil and, you know, for fifth and sixth grade a lot of it still is. So it's just write that ahead of time. Just put your name, Mr. Jamison, fourth period. I think we were also supposed to have the date that we were submitting it. Like, okay, you can't do that ahead of time, but I'll bet Mr. Jamison will still give you credit if you forget the date if you put the other things. So there are solutions for students, and you don't have to wait for parents to give those kinds of solutions. You can tell your classroom, "Look, this is the expectation. I'm not changing that." And if they need to know why, and it would be more the initiating Fact Finders like you and also I'm an initiating they may say, "That's … Why do … Why? What do you care?" I'll tell you why, because I get a lot of papers, guys. And if I have to figure out, wait, whose handwriting is this, it's a giant pain in the neck for me, and wouldn't you rather have me get to spend my time designing cool stuff for you to do rather than spend my time figuring out whose assignment this is? Anyway, they'll get that.

I think it's important.

Again, you have such an important job, helping kids get

on the right track in life. I thought it was so fascinating when Eric came in and did the assessment with the classroom because without knowing my students, the only student that he knew better than me was his own child, obviously, right? But he didn't know these students, and he was able to identify certain ways that they might learn better, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh." It was, it was so accurate. And he's like, "I know you don't know that kid, but you nailed it." You're like, "This one would rather, give an oral presentation. This one would rather take a test." And it was just like, wow, right? And it … Very different ways to like express the knowledge that they gained, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and that's, that's another example of the ways that you as a teacher can, give every kid the opportunity to thrive. Look, at some point, all of them need to be exposed to you have to give an oral presentation, but there can be other times where in a unit it's like, "Hey, here are the three different ways you can wrap this up. You're allowed to do a written assignment. You're allowed to do an oral presentation or even a skit or whatever," and then they can choose. And, you know, frankly, in life, most of the time there's some flexibility for us. And it may not be day to day, but we can choose a different career based on what we know is gonna be best for us. So you're setting kids up for success when they have … And again, it's not about lowering expectations. Sometimes people think, "Oh, you wanna make it too easy on them." No, like, no, make the, make the expectations rigorous, but then set them up for success so they get to meet those high expectations in a way that suits them best and that develops their skills. Again, not, you don't give them a free pass on, "Well, you'll never have to do an oral presentation because that's not your preferred or most natural style," but you don't have to do it every single time. The next thing is your Quick Start. So your strength in Quick Start is to stabilize. You figure out what is going well, and you stick with that. You don't just jump on the latest trend just because. You don't abandon what's working just because you feel like changing it up. You're, you're kind of a rock in that sense. Like, people can count on you to be that person that when things are going well, you keep chaos from bubbling up around you. Sometimes, frankly, where chaos is already there, you're the one who will, especially looking at the entirety of your Kolbe result, if it's, if you're in a chaotic environment, your instinct is, "Hey, let's figure this out. What is the pattern in this system that already exists?" Even if it doesn't seem like there's much, and maybe there isn't much there, what is there, and how can you bring some normalcy and some consistency to that chaotic environment? And that's a really important strength. Sometimes it gets overlooked. You're at a two, and so we would call that the counteract or prevent strength in Quick Start. And whichever of the four Action Modes, has that, it's oftentimes overlooked. Like, people don't see it as a strength so much as sometimes it's like, "Oh,

my gosh, Raymond, seriously, why can't you just be more spontaneous?"

Right. And I was actually, I had a question for you about that. 'Cause you're probably not that classically spontaneous person. Is that true?

Yeah. And I actually had a question about that. Like, 'cause I strongly agree that I almost find comfort in that, like finding something that works and sticking with it. But I also sometimes view that as a possible, I don't know if weakness is the correct word, but you know, it's like it's, it prevents me from being spontaneous, and sometimes that makes you miss out on the new things, right? Like, is there a way to, I guess, still harness the strength but also not get stuck in your ways? I think is the right way to put it.

Yeah, so number one, let me start with kind of the soft parts, and then I'll get to a more specific question or answer. It's not a weakness. It's who you are. There might be times where there are consequences of who you are that you don't love as much or they're, you know, not as good for a particular project or professional setting. But it's not a weakness. It's nothing you need to apologize for. It's part of who you are. And especially, it's not a weakness. I want to flip it, and that's why I described it, it's your strength in Quick Start. And then if you look at your entire result, it's, yeah, you do need to have a system and a structure and a plan. And yes, you need information and details before you,… You're not a, "Oh, just, just do it." You're a look before you leap, not a just do it kind of person. So, or, you know, just go for it. What are you waiting for? It's not that you're waiting. It's that, yeah, I need some information also appreciate, when you're feeling that way, and you're gonna feel that way. And by the way, people who are at the other end of the spectrum, have different things where they feel like, "Oh, yeah, but maybe this is my weakness." So somebody at the other end of the spectrum in terms of quick starts, like, "I keep doing this where I just jump in and I don't know what I should've known beforehand, and it really burns me, and man, I wish I had thought a little bit more before I just jumped into that next thing that I did." And by the way, there can be serious consequences like bankruptcies and divorces. Right. And then they look back on it like, "Oh man, I wish I was more like Raymond," or like those people, you know, to take you out of it, "I wish I was more like those people who had more of a plan and a system and got a little more information before they just jumped into this stuff." So we all have regrets and we can look back and go, "Oh, I wish maybe that last time I had… I was different." Don't even worry about it. Like, you are who you are. And so now in terms of what to do, because yeah, I totally understand there are times where you can look at a situation and kind of step outside of your body almost and your cognitive or your thinking part of your brain is like, "I should be more spontaneous here." Like let's say, and I'll get back to a personal one, and because I think this is a fairly common thing, so again, I don't know your wife's result, but for a second let's just hypothesize she's very different and she is maybe more spontaneous and just try things out and experiment. So cognitively you can think, "You know what? That's important to my wife. That's how she operates, so I need to do that. That would be just… I'd be being a good supportive husband to drive that once in a while, or at least accommodate it when she wants to do it." So here's my recommendation to you. Now that you're in that mode where you've identified it, use your strengths to say, "I'm going to plan for spontaneity." Now, that might sound stupid, but there are ways to do it for a spouse that are really effective. So you don't tell her you're planning for it. So, I don't know, like next month something is coming up, and let's say, hey, we've got… It's summer. I've got time off. We're gonna be able to take a vacation. And you plan some stuff out but you don't tell her, and you spring it on her more last-minute. And by the way, maybe you have three options. Like, "Hey honey, you know what? This weekend," and we happen to be recording this on a Friday, so you can go to her on a Fri and say, "Hey, this weekend we've got some time, and I was thinking we could do this, or this." Now to you, you've already planned them out. You've done the homework. But to her it's last-minute. You're giving her options. And by the way, make some of those options things that you've never done as a couple or as a family. And if they totally crash and burn, that's okay. And again, I don't know your wife is like this, so it might be terrible advice 'cause she might be like, "No, I wanna plan it just like you." But if it is true, and by the way, it could be one of your kids. Like, if you notice, especially with your seven-year-old, she might be somebody where she needs, more spontaneity. She drives that Which she does. She absolutely does … there so you can, especially in that role as a parent, it's easier for her not to know that it's planned out and you've done your homework. It's just you giving her three options, and she gets to pick, and it's something she's never tried before, and that's awesome for her. She needs it. Whereas if it's, some kids are the opposite, where it's, "Please don't spring this on me last minute. Give me advanced warning. Give me… Let me taste it a little bit before I jump in so it's more of a progression." Where she might be a, "Please, Dad, let me jump into the deep end." And there as a parent, what you need to provide is safety and security, 'cause kids don't understand what they can't do. And I don't just mean literally, like, jumping in a deep end and drowning. But still, we can use that as an example, 'cause it's a real one. Like, she wants to jump in For a kid like that, let her jump in, like in a literal sense, let her jump into the deep end of a pool before she can swim. But you're right there. You're not gonna let her be unsafe or suffer really bad long-term consequences, and then she learns from it. So she jumps in, she has a bad time, but you know, don't make it traumatic. You get her, you get her to the side of the pool and go like, "Oh, so what, what was that like?" And she might say, "That was awesome." Yeah. "Like, it was terrible. I failed, but-" Yes. "… I wanna jump in the deep end again." Yes. And she gets better. Whereas another kid, maybe your two-year-old, is, "Don't make me jump into the deep end. Let me sit on the edge of the pool and dangle my toes first, and then sit on the first step." It doesn't make one of those kids better or worse. It's just you then as a parent figuring out, how can I help them in a, develop in a way that's gonna be best for them? If they have a desire to become a world-class swimmer, if you take the kid that is the more natural jump into the deep end and you make her take slow, incremental, planned out steps, she's gonna hate swimming at a, at an affect of like, "I just don't like it." Whereas if you let her jump into the deep end, even if it means she fails the first few times, that's awesome. And the opposite is then true for the other kid, and we don't know what your two-year-old is necessarily. But, and I think a big advantage that you have as a teacher is, I said it's such a tricky role, but you also are used to being forced to see people operate in different ways. Whereas I think in a lot of professions, professional leaders in businesses are more often set up for, all right, you're leading a team of 10 people. You can just tell them what to do and how to do it. So I talked before about, you know, with students, don't compromise on what they're accountable for or what your standards are, but give them freedom to get there in different ways. Same thing with other professions. I tell them, "Don't compromise on what your team is supposed to do and achieve, but understand people are gonna get there in different ways." So in a professional setting, it's more put people in those roles that work best for them. Kind of like I was saying with you, let students take, show you their proficiency, demonstrate their proficiency in different ways. With professional managers and organizations with adults, it's more put those people in roles where they get to do the things that are gonna be, you know, most suited for their strengths, and therefore help the team achieve its objectives together. What other things have you seen… You were kinda talking about with your students, and you had the benefit of seeing Eric. So you saw that he was able to predict some behaviors from those students. What else have you seen now that you've been exposed to with your students and the way they do things in the classroom?

Yeah, so the, kind of the style of teaching that I was educated on was this thing called universal design, and it really kind of like, incorporates a lot of what you've been speaking about, where it's like you can't, you can't change your instruction individually for each student, but what you try to do is you try to find, you know, kind of groupings of students. Like, these are the ones that are, like you said, maybe these ones are the ones that want the more spontaneous stuff. These are the ones that want more structure. And what you can do is you can design one lesson that almost universally grabs all of them, right? And, you know, the first three weeks, you're, you're teaching a little bit, but the first three weeks in your classroom, what you're really doing is you're trying to see how each student learns and how they, how they, interact with lessons and how they interact with each other, right? And it's like you're almost, and maybe this is me speaking as a someone who wants to make a system, but you're almost designing this, blueprint for, "Okay, how am I gonna get all of these different thinkers involved," right? And it's been fascinating. With these students, I had students that were, "I'm gonna be participating in every single group discussion," right? But when you have 18 kids and you have three kids talking all the time, is it a group discussion? I don't know. Right? So it's like you try to find ways to, like you said, actually, I love your example how, there's certain students that the way to get them involved in a group discussion was actually kind of, pre-teaching the discussion to them and making them feel safe about it. And what I would do with some of them is I would have them do a small group. I call it table talk. Let's have a table talk first where it's not as scary. You know, they're not, they don't have the spotlight on them, right? And, you let them talk first and feel safe, right? And, then you get them in, and then they can kind of keep up with the kids that are ready to talk at all times, right? And so, in my experience, it's just like trying to identify all of these speakers or all these thinkers and how these thinkers mesh together as a collective group.

I love that. Yeah, and I think, so I don't know that much about universal design, but sounds like the principles very much align with what we're talking about, where it's giving kids with different styles the ability to rise to the top. And so let me just tap in here 'cause I still haven't finished your full result. The last of the four things that we talk about is your Implementor, which isn't Implementor as in, like, implement, carry things out to fruition. That's more the Follow Thru. But it's really about the use of tools and implements is where the name comes from. But it's about the physical, tactile, tangible, hands-on way we all take action. So you're a four, so you're near the mid-range, and it's the first of the four modes where you're really near that mid-range where you really bridge the different sides of this continuum or spectrum of strengths in the tactile, tangible, three-dimensional world. So, you will demonstrate things some. You know, you will get your literal hands on objects, and construct. But it's more for you about kind of restoring and repairing rather than building from scratch. So in your teaching, sure you'll have some props that you will use to physically show and demonstrate kids, but it's not what you do all the time. It's not what you lead with. That's more you will have almost a script for what you're doing. It isn't-- I mean, I know you can't script out a day at school because things are spontaneous, you know, they are spontaneous, at least in the sense that they flow. But you'll still know, like, "Here's where I'm gonna start. I need to cover these four principles. I'm gonna talk about these things." So it isn't literally scripted, but it will be pretty well planned. And again, maybe with some of the physical stuff. You'll talk, but you'll also include some physical parts, and that's also gonna be important for your students 'cause some of those 18, and what we see is roughly 20% of a given population, if it's a random distribution, roughly 20% will be at one end of the spectrum where they're either initiating in one of these modes, so here we're talking Implementor. Roughly 20% or, you know, about three or four of those kids in your group of 18 will be the kind of person that needs to construct, build, demonstrate. So if we're talking about a group discussion,- Let them know that, hey, for the discussion, one of the things you can do is bring something that you've built or constructed or show us. Don't just talk about it, but show me some important object. And honestly, this is where you're at, you teach, well, with the fifth and sixth graders, that's an age where most instruction starts taking the physical out. We don't do show and tell anymore. We don't let you construct things. Like, dioramas are for little kids. They're for those second graders, like you're gonna teach. And you take these kids who have a natural instinctive strength for showing and building, and you say, "No, that's not important anymore." Mingan, you can … And I'm not saying you would've. Too often the educational system demoralizes and crushes those kids. They're just as smart as they ever were, they just don't get to show it in the same ways. Yeah.

Well, I'll, I'll, jump in on that. Some of our most successful lessons, and I'll even use an example that you said, like when the students in, my social studies class were asked at the end of the year, to research any country they want, and this research was structured. They had, you know, let's go major cities, let's go with culture, let's go with some, historical events, right? But then they were given an opportunity to make something, right? And the different things that these students made were so awesome. Like, some of them brought in, "I'm gonna make some food that country makes that we aren't familiar with, and I'm gonna bring it in and everyone in the class can try it." I had other kids that made, like a model, jet from the, their military, from another, another country's military, right? And it's like you could see that, like some of them, you know, they thrive on the research, they thrive on the paper. It's necessary that everybody did that. Yeah. But after that, you could see some of them that they're just like, "Oh my gosh, I can't wait to make," right? "I can't wait to show you what I made. I can't wait to go through all the steps of making it," right? And it's, I think that those are some of the times when I saw, at least half of my students be the absolute most engaged, right?

Yeah. Well, and especially as I was saying, they're at an age where even though you're giving them the opportunity, there's, there's probably less of that than there was two or three years ago for them. So when they do have it, they, it's like a light gets turned on. And you can, I mean, you've seen it. You read it on their faces. Their body language changes. In fact, this is true for any of the Action Modes. You know, if you tell a Fact Finder, a researcher kind of person, "Hey, we just really want the summary, the top three things. Don't go deep on this 'cause it's not important enough." Ah, you know, that's, that's tough on them. Or, "Oh, you can do all the research you want, but it's a short presentation, so you don't have ti-" Oh, man, that's, that's harder for them, and they can feel like, "But I need to be able to share all that with you." So yeah, no, I love that you do that, and it sounds like you've already designed so much of your classroom around stuff that helps kids thrive with their Kolbe results.

I loved how you explained how I initially read my results as a weakness, and I was like, "Well, that's my weakness." And whenever you talked about it, "Well, someone on the other end might look at that as a strength, and theirs as a weakness," and that honestly kind of motivated me to, to lean into my strengths a little more and understand them as strengths. But also, I mean, ever since I saw this initial, presentation done in my classroom, it… That was the first light bulb that went off, where I was like, "Okay, wow." I already took the approach that all of my students are unique, but being able to see a little bit more specifically how they are unique and specifically, like, the avenues that they need to go through to engage with the material, it's, it's,… I'm really excited to start class next year with all these new ideas I have going on, you know, and obviously, I wanna make some new systems, right? And I want to do some more research, right? Yep. But, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited to apply it.

To me, you're demonstrating why your strength in quick start is such an amazing thing. But also in… So you talked about you're excited to do new things with your classroom next year. So one of the misperceptions that people have of others, and sometimes themselves, and you've already talked about this with yourself, is like, gosh, it's, it's a weakness that I don't… I'm not spontaneous, or I don't just jump into the next new thing. Sometimes then people extrapolate to, "Oh, I'm always gonna be stuck in my ways, and I'm never gonna do anything new," or it might be outwardly somebody else, they're never gonna change or do… No. They will when there's a… For you, when there's a framework and a system, and you have the time and the luxury of doing some research and planning for it- you're excited about the opportunity to do something a little bit different, but not it's because you have the ability to do it in a way that works for you. You've got some time to plan, to put it into a new structure, to learn about it. You know, with your Fact Finder, you need to be a bit of an expert. Whereas if an administrator, you know, when you're doing your teacher in-service the week before school starts, if they came into your classroom and said, "Hey, everybody, I went to this thing at Columbia over the summer, this great new thing. You all are gonna love it. Here it is. I've done the homework. I've done the plan. I'm giving it to you." So gosh, you don't even, you don't have to plan. They think they're doing you such a favor. "You don't have to plan. I've got the curriculum. You're just gonna implement it." Your natural reaction, okay, you're smart enough not to tell them, "You're crazy. I'm not gonna do it," but that's what's going through your mind. So your secondary reaction is people would see it as, like, passive aggressiveness. You just slow walk it. You don't implement it right away. What that administrator would then need to think about is for a teacher like you, "Hey, if I wanna make Raymond successful," and I want Raymond's buy-in, by the way, why don't I tell Raymond about this earlier, not spring it on him at the staff meeting with everybody else? Even if it's a week, when they get back from that thing, they should say, "Hey, Raymond, I'm really thinking about doing this, and, you know, giving this stuff to everybody for the coming year. Our meeting's next week. Can you look at it and can we talk about it the day beforehand?" You're gonna do some research. You're gonna be able to at least start to put it into a plan. So it's still less time than you would, you'd normally want the whole summer. But at least that one week is gonna be so helpful for you, and it won't feel new and novel and experimental and unproven. And that administrator will think they're doing such a great thing for you by, again, that part of here, I'm just giving you the plan and the curriculum. But what they don't understand is if it's somebody like you, you need to do that yourself.

When I was first starting out teaching, the very, very beginning, I had some lesson plans made for me and given to me, and I bombed in them. And I was just, I was, I got very frustrated, and I didn't realize until after that so much of my strength in the classroom comes from being prepared, that preparedness came from making the lessons myself. Yeah. Right? And it's just like, it's a very, like, it's, it's very obvious whenever I've done a lesson, and it's very obvious when I'm doing somebody else's lesson. You can see them, like, on… And I had to record myself, right? So it's like you can see these videos of me when it's someone's lesson and when it's mine. It's like two different people.

Yeah, and that's where you still have to achieve the same learning outcomes. You know, you still have to have excellent teaching. It's not a matter of lowering the standards so that you fit them. It's a matter of you making it your own, and being able to do the planning and the research and all that. So I love that you've learned that. Yeah, we help people learn those things earlier so that they don't have to learn them the hard way sometimes.

Yeah.

Like, it sounds like maybe you did, where you thought, "Well, I thought this would be easier, but I'm just, it doesn't work as well." Yeah.

Well, but learning this through the Kolbe system actually just helped identify exactly why, right? Yeah. It's like I had these experiences, but now I can put a name to it and a reason behind it.

So one thing I would encourage you to do, over the summer is think about how you will tell the other people on the team or the other second grade teachers, and probably administrators as well, how are you gonna tell them about you, and how you thrive, and where you will play the best role? And then how will you tell them? Because if they think they're gonna help you, like, "Hey, Raymond, we've been doing this at our school," which is true, like, they've already got that stuff, you're gonna need to be able to communicate to them, "Hey, I'm gonna need to get this information." So maybe it's asking ahead of time, "Hey, can you send me all the stuff that you already have planned? I would love to look it over." And, look, be realistic. Think about how people tend to react. You can flatter them, and that's a good thing, 'cause you want to step in that first day when you're, you know, working together as a team, and these are people you're gonna see every day. If they've already been conditioned to think of you as somebody who's really conscientious and thinks highly of them, so you can, "Oh, I know you've got stuff already, and I would love to learn from what you've already done," what you know is it's really just setting you up for success. But at the same time, they're hearing, "Oh, he cares about this. He's really thoughtful, and he appreciates the ideas." But oftentimes people can take it as a challenge, so that's why think about the way you're delivering it. Instead of, like, "Show me what you've already done," they can get the impression that you're doing it so that you can shake it up and change it 'cause it's not gonna be good enough, and that's not why. So just communicate with them that that's not why. But then when you start working with them, you can let them know, "Hey, this is, this is me. This is how I thrive. I understand that there are gonna be times where that might not be the role I need to play on this team. Don't worry, I get that. But really I do my best when I have time to prepare, become an expert, do research, where I get to plan stuff out. Even if it's curriculum that you guys have already developed, I'd love to be able to work on it and make it my own a little bit and then share those ideas with you." Um, so yeah, think about that ahead of time. Well, I've really enjoyed our discussion. Thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it.

David, it was a blast. Seriously, I'm so grateful that you had me on. I learned so much, and I'm like I said, I'm now excited for next year. I'm not gonna wish my summer away. I earned the summer.

Yes.

But I can't wait to get started again.

I love that. And yeah, also a really heartfelt thank you, for what you do as a teacher. And from what I'm hearing, you know, you're already giving kids the freedom to be themselves, and, you know, designing the way you teach and the opportunities for them to accommodate all kinds of different strengths. So really thank you for that.

Even though it's not my kids, it's the world.

you're making it better.

Thank you for saying that.

All right. Well, thanks, Raymond. It's been great.