Rethinking Imposter Syndrome: A 7-5-4-3 Kolbe A Index, Unpacked | Private Sessions

[00:00:00] You're an entrepreneur. Sounds like you're thriving at it, but you might not always feel like it. I mean, I hate to say that you're correct and spot on here with this, but it's okay. You can say it was spot on. I like that. This is Tron Smith. She works at Airbnb and owns a rental staging company on the side. Her co-workers call her Professor Tron, and by all accounts, she's thriving, but she still feels like an imposter.

[00:00:25] We're digging into what changes when she stops fighting how she's wired and leans into her natural advantage. I know the answer, but it's like, oh, I didn't practice that one, even though it's a question that I've been asked like a thousand times. You give a lot of information, including by the way, when you're not asked to give information. What you're saying is I'm naturally nosy, which is true, right? Like I'm just a very curious person.

[00:00:49] I do not ask a lot of questions on team meetings and team calls. That's where the imposter syndrome kicks in for me. I think one thing that learning your Colby results can help with is understanding, you know what? I'm not an imposter. So your Colby result, your natural advantage, which is the little kind of intro quick hit, you are an answer authority.

[00:01:13] So when I hear your description of, I mean, you start with you're a salesperson, you're a seller. And I think for a lot of people that brings a preconceived notion of, oh, that means you're just like jump in risk taker, make stuff up as you go along. But for you, you're the answer person. So I was fascinated hearing your description of what you're doing, building markets and doing market research. You need the you need the info. You get the scoop.

[00:01:43] You do your homework. You come with numbers and facts and figures and you don't just keep them in a notebook to yourself. You share them. You tell people. So you're not just the question authority. We could have put it that way, too, because I imagine you are asking questions all the time in meetings, whether that's with clients, with bosses, with friends. By the way, this just isn't something that just happens at work. This is who you are all the time.

[00:02:11] So, yeah, you ask questions, but you give a lot of information, including, by the way, when you're not asked to give information, which and by the way, I am also an answer authority. So none of this is a criticism. If you hear me saying something that sounds like I'm it's a negative, it's just a I meant to mean to be lighthearted. But yeah, things we get in trouble for.

[00:02:37] Like, I'll admit, sometimes I get in trouble for going on a little too long sharing information and I kind of have to notice some body language and other things. You're a little bit the same way, I would imagine. Does that sound right? Yeah, I think it sounds spot on. Like, I do like to ask questions. I do like to kind of do the research right before I get in there.

[00:03:03] And I think what you're saying is I'm naturally nosy, which is true. Like, right? Like, I'm just a very curious person. And so moving into market research and learning like consumer insights, quant and qual and that whole thing and kind of trying to uncover what I want to leverage in my sales pitch is really, I think, one of the reasons why I became so successful as an enterprise seller. And even here at Airbnb, right?

[00:03:32] There's a lot of data that I have at my fingertips about everything. And being able to decide what of that data is appropriate for whatever project that I'm working on and then how to funnel that up is also one of my strong suits. I am going to disagree with you on a little bit, though. Okay. I do not ask a lot of questions on team meetings and team calls. That's where the imposter syndrome kicks in for me.

[00:04:02] And I can ask them private. I can ask my manager, hey, what did they mean by that? But I'm not that person that in front of the whole group is going to be like, hey, what did you mean by whatever that word was or whatever that thing was that just flew over my head? I will get to the bottom of it and I'm not going to make it up. But a public one is probably not going to be where I'm going to go. I get it.

[00:04:31] And thank you for that kind of correction. Or I wouldn't even call it a correction, just adding to it. What I want to use that to talk about is about the way you take action. It's called the conative part of the mind. So that's the you need information. You need to get answers. That's the way you problem solve. You know, you jump in by getting information and by sharing it. What you're describing, though, and that's where the kind of correction or additional information is that.

[00:05:02] That sense of, OK, but in what context are you comfortable doing it? That's more the affective side of who you are. So you're more comfortable getting that information. You have a preference for doing that more behind the scenes. It sounds like not in front of the whole group. You know, maybe doing it before, maybe doing it after. If the questions pop up in your head, maybe you jot them down. Actually, I would suggest. And this is a really important one for somebody like you, because you have different parts of who you are as a whole person.

[00:05:30] So you're going to have all these questions. And if you don't think in the team meeting is the right time to do it, don't lose track of them. Like part of your confidence will be when you can get those answers, you can go back into it later. And if you have the questions and you forget about them, which we all do from time to time, that can make you feel a little sometimes unprepared or whatever it is. So don't lose track of them. Write them down.

[00:05:57] That imposter syndrome that you mentioned pops up in different ways, I think, for almost everybody at various times. Definitely more of an affective thing. You know, it's not about your conative strengths. And I think one thing that learning your Colby results can help with for you and for kind of everybody is understanding, you know what? I'm not an imposter. Like this part of me, this answer authority part of me. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:26] People can count on me to get good questions. Again, whether you're asking them in a meeting or not, you come up with great questions. You not only have insights by using your strength in gathering and sharing information. So you don't only have the, oh, I did the research and I now know it. Part of that is also the question phase of that. And I'm not saying you need to ask the questions in a meeting, but I will tell you, you're not an imposter, Tron.

[00:06:55] Like that is who you are. And you're, I'm sure you're awesome at it. So don't hide it. Like do how you're comfortable doing it. Maybe add them in. I mean, I'm already getting a sense from you that you are very comfortable meeting people and talking. You're not a blushing violet.

[00:07:16] You know, you're not a wallflower, but I hear that, you know, team meeting, that's when you maybe don't want to ask those questions, but maybe figure out a way to do it a little more often. So you can show to yourself. I don't care about the other people because they already know you're not an imposter. Show yourself like, no, this is what I bring to the table. And it's amazing. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, no, hard. Okay. All right.

[00:07:45] Well, let's dig into the broader Colby A result. Not just the natural advantage, which is fantastic. And it's really meant to suck you in and get you going. Oh yeah, I see what you're talking about. This is me. But the rest of your results. So by numbers, you're a seven, five, four, three. So what we've been talking about, the answer authority, that's really the fact finder part of you, the gathering and sharing information, doing the research, needing to become an expert. So that's seven.

[00:08:15] And in each of those, it's on a spectrum, really, from one to 10. The further we are toward 10, the more we would say that you initiate in that what we call action mode. So in fact finder, you really initiate the problem solving process because you're at a seven with getting that information. So again, detail expert. Millions of people have discovered their natural way of taking action. What's yours?

[00:08:42] Go to Colby.com and take the Colby A index to find out. When it comes to guessing, you're not a guess it kind of person. You are a quantify it kind of person. If there are unknowns and there are always unknowns, you're the kind of person that will like to put bounds or constraints on the unknowns and tell people, well, here's what I think within a certain percentage of confidence level or it's plus or minus this.

[00:09:09] Because by the same token, you're perfectly fine just putting stuff out there as long as you have already done the research and gotten some of those answers. It's the times when somebody says, you know, asks you to give an opinion on something where you really don't know it yet. That's where you'll say, yeah, I really don't know. And try not to let people force you into a situation where you have to give an answer that you really don't have a clue about.

[00:09:39] I don't know if that happens much in your job or personal life. I mean, it happens sometimes. I think it recently happened on an example where I was leading a webinar and somebody asked. It's really interesting that you actually brought this up because somebody in the webinar asked a question that I wasn't really sure on the answer of. And I just completely froze and was so disarmed.

[00:10:09] And it was just a basic question that I probably should have known the answer to. So my backup that I keep in my back pocket is I normally ask my manager, I say, keep me honest. So that means you come in and make sure what I'm saying is actually the right thing that I should actually be saying. Because I don't like guessing and I don't like misinformation. And I get frazzled. It's weird. Like, I know the answer, but it's like, oh, I didn't practice that one.

[00:10:37] Even though it's a question that I've been asked like a thousand times, David. So, yeah, I think that, I mean, I hate to say that you're correct and spot on here with this, but it's okay. You can say it was spot on. I like that. Pretty spot on on that one. Yeah. And the way, you know, there's some techniques. One of them is just to say, you know what? That question deserves a really accurate response. And I would be guessing right now.

[00:11:06] So let me get back to you on that. And sometimes even in the course of a conversation, it'll come back to you and you can say, you know, I thought about it a little more. And here's that answer to that question, even if it was five minutes earlier. And, you know, that's fine. But you can give responses like that. And because the people who work with you more often know that when you give an answer, they can count on it because of your seven in fact finder. I think there'll be there'll be very understanding of hearing that. Sure.

[00:11:36] So the next one is follow through. Follow through is how we deal with systems, structure, organization. So you're a five. And as I said before, every, you know, the scale is essentially a one through a 10. You're in the middle of that continuum. So when it comes to systems and structure, you don't necessarily initiate the problem solving process or a project with creating a system and coming up with the comprehensive 12 step plan.

[00:12:04] And you're more likely to, hey, if there's one there, great. I will work within that system or structure. You know, you're also not the kind of person that just ignores it, is always finding shortcuts and ignoring some of the steps. By the way, full disclosure, I'm on that end of the spectrum. Yeah. So the positive way of describing that is I'm open ended and adaptable. But yeah, the negative side, because I was talking about it's not really a criticism.

[00:12:32] But the reality is that if you need somebody to follow procedures carefully and consistently, I'm not your guy. You aren't so far on that end of the spectrum where like if you were running safety at a nuclear power plant, maybe I'd want a little more follow through from you. Right. But you're not. So you live within those systems and structures.

[00:12:59] And what's great about somebody with this five in system and structure is you kind of accommodate those swings and you will help other people, too, whether that's at work or also in your personal life. Because there are times when, oh, my gosh, there's, you know, things are so structured and systematic and you can live within that. But you can also maybe push some of those boundaries and find some of those shortcuts. And and then those times when, oh, my gosh, there's no system in place. There's no structure.

[00:13:29] Now, if you have to operate in that situation all the time, that's going to be stressful. But for little chunks. Great. You can accommodate that. You can flow with that a little bit until it gets back to a little bit of system and structure. So you'll you'll do that pretty naturally. And people can lean on you for that. You're a good person to work, you know, where there's a little bit of bureaucracy, but maybe also a little bit of leeway. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:13:58] I don't know how bureaucratic Airbnb is and I don't want to rat them out or anything, but no, no. It's a big business. At least we all know it's business. Yeah, it's a big business. And I'm fortunate enough to work on the side of the business that's not so big. And so ambiguity is still where we live and where I live. And there's a lot of scrappiness that's that's still going on on this side of the team. And there is some building that's happening. Right.

[00:14:26] And so it's like you said, like I can thrive in this situation where I have some sort of just frame. I can start to move those pieces into place and like reorganize some things around to start to make a clear playbook after I already have kind of like these are the goals. These are instructions. These are the goals.

[00:14:49] Like get us there and I can kind of weave in and find some, you know, operational gaps and like process redundancy. Like I'm good at finding redundant processes. Okay. Okay. But also like really good at leaning into, like you said, new ways and shortcuts. Like I'm this new, we got this new AI tool at Airbnb. It's literally I'm the gene. Like they're calling me Professor Tron at this point in time.

[00:15:18] And I'm like schooling them on how to like work that into the daily processes that we're using every day and cross-functional partnerships and how to naturally connect those systems together. I think is why I'm loving the role that I'm in right now and what I'm doing. Because like you said, if it's the same every day for me, eventually I'm going to literally like tap. It's going to be a done deal. It's going to be a done deal.

[00:15:47] So I'm also curious, starting and running your own business. I mean, there were no systems and structure in place. So how, and you probably need at least some. How did you deal with that? GoDaddy was my best friend. No, I really did. I leaned into, I did the research, right? So I leaned into my friends that had businesses.

[00:16:12] I leaned into some GoDaddy tools and services and resources that they had available, not just for building my website, but how to capture lead gen, how to work that, right? So like those kinds of things. I worked with my friends summer on how to get all my paperwork correct and my LLC. And like, you know, going to, I have a large network and a connection of people that I love and love me.

[00:16:40] And leaning into their strengths and expertise and the places where I was weak was how I kind of lifted that off the ground. And yeah, still to this day, you know, getting clients and referrals to this day. So one of the things I'm hearing when you're talking about that is you hearing or me hearing you bring that fact finder to the table too. That's pretty detailed.

[00:17:04] Like all the, you know, doing the research, you use that, getting the LLC in place, using your network. You know, that, that's all great. And so I think that's an interesting description of using your fact finder to provide the system and structure that you needed with that, but also not letting it become overly systematic and bureaucratic in your business.

[00:17:29] Now, it's also a segue then to the third one of the four action modes, which we call the quick start. And it's how you deal with risk, the unknown innovation in the sense of doing things new. And with your four in the quick start, you're also in what we consider the mid range, kind of like with follow through where you accommodate the kind of the risk and the unknown.

[00:17:55] So one of the things I heard with kind of why you started your business, it was almost like you were pushed to it. It wasn't like you're the kind of person where, oh my gosh, every month I'm starting a new business. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. I'm not going to create chaos for the sake of change. Right. It's going to just be like, I'm forced into it. I'm testing specific things like, like piloting different things. It's my approach to innovation is very strategic.

[00:18:25] And I think that a lot of time people think that because I am a spontaneous person in life and creative and social that professionally, like I'm this huge risk taker. And sometimes you have to be in sales, right? They say the bigger the risk, the higher the payout, the higher the reward, the higher the commission or whatever. But for me, myself, I think I want it to be a calculated risk or a measured risk. Right.

[00:18:56] And then which is like straight out of our results with your fact finder. Seriously. I mean, I was honestly in my notes, I was going to talk about your calculated risk taking with your that's how you should do it. And, you know, you built on something you already knew as an industry you were already in. And so this is a thing I'm going to hit again with the imposter syndrome thing.

[00:19:20] You're an entrepreneur and you it sounds like you're thriving at it, but you might not always feel like it because this picture that we've been painted or this notion that we've been told, well, entrepreneurs have to be these swashbuckling, bet the farm, do different, you know, brand new things all the time. A lot of people, frankly, I don't know if it's most, but a lot of entrepreneurs are more like you where it is calculated.

[00:19:50] It's incremental. Yeah, you started your own business. That's what makes you an entrepreneur. But you didn't just wake up one morning and decide, oh, I think this sounds cool. But people feel like they aren't real entrepreneurs sometimes because they fit your mold and not this other mold that culturally we're told that you have to be just like that to be an entrepreneur rather than be somebody who, you know, starts out in a field, learns under a mentor.

[00:20:19] And at some point says, you know what, I'm at the point where I've learned all this stuff I need to learn. Yeah, I'm going to start my own business and go for it. And that's great. And just because you weren't the, you know, stereotype of what an entrepreneur looks like does not make you an imposter. Yeah. Thank you. And I don't know if you feel that way about your entrepreneurial life, but I've met lots of people who do.

[00:20:42] I feel that way quite often when, you know, I'm starting a project or when a new like host or I'm like starting a new home with a new home. I feel very entrepreneurial about it when they pay me, when I pay my employees. Right. Other than that, it's like, oh, it's just this side thing that I did. Like, that's literally how I refer to it. Okay. So the last part of your Colby result is your implementer.

[00:21:11] The name can sometimes be misleading. It's not how we implement as in carry things out. The name comes from the use of tools and implements. It's all about the three-dimensional world, tactile, physically building parts. So for you, you have a three in implementer, which is toward the end of the spectrum where you're more imagine rather than build. You envision rather than, you know, physically construct and create.

[00:21:40] So your way of being creative, even if it's, are you, do you consider yourself to be an artist? Occasionally. Yeah. I mean, I am definitely a creative and artistic sort. I don't know if you can tell, but I may be a little bit humorous and I have taken stand-up comedy classes at Stand Up Live. So, you know, storytelling at Moff, all my jail. Yeah. A lot of times people think of, oh, if you're creative, you need to create physical stuff. Yeah.

[00:22:09] You are a creative who creates conceptual things, stories. Lots of times when we see visual artists who have a result like yours, it's maybe painting, but it's more, it's much more two-dimensional rather than sculpture for, as an example. No, I was just going to say, like, I think one of the best things about working for Airbnb for me is that it is, like, emotional, right? Before it's more operational.

[00:22:38] Like, it's all the heartstrings and the feels. And, like, I can really lean into getting people to feel a certain way, right? Like, I want my new host to feel a certain way when they walk into the house that I've, you know, assembled as opposed to them remembering that it only took me 40 hours to do it, right? So, I'm going for, you know, that I can kind of see that and visualize. Like, that's the end for me.

[00:23:08] When I pull back the curtain and they're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. That's why I build the furniture or pay my team to build the furniture. Okay. Yeah. Let me ask about that. How much? Because that part sounds like a very physical job. Yeah. How much are you doing the physical putting it together and placing it versus other people doing that part? I'm doing the parts that I know need to be perfect and that I do.

[00:23:37] So, like, the wallpapering, right? Like, that's, I'm always going to physically do that because I, it's not like I don't trust them to do it or someone on my team to do it. Like, I'm the expert and they're paying for the expert in that regard. The other stuff, it's literally, I'm just supervising. So, it's only really strategic projects that need a level of expertise and care that I'm familiar with that I jump in hands on.

[00:24:04] I may be on site every day, but I'm not digging and screwing. Well, I love, so, again, getting back to what you lead with and your fact finder and, you know, it's you being the expert, which is a fact finder thing. I'd also say it sounds like attention to detail. So, using the wallpaper thing, as I was saying, initiating implementer is all about physical creating.

[00:24:32] So, you know, putting wallpaper up is more physical than telling a story. But it's also more two-dimensional than three-dimensional. And I just know for myself as the fact finder, it's more about when I put that wallpaper up, those seams have to be perfect. I don't want to see any gap, you know, in that pattern. Whereas I know other people who are like twos in fact finder, they're like, whatever, you know, it doesn't have to be exact, precise.

[00:25:00] I'm like, oh, man, that's just nails on the chalkboard to me. Exactly. It has to be seamless. It's just like you said, like, has to be seamless. What seam? Where's their seam? No. You can't find it. It's done right. Exactly. Very cool. What questions do you have?

[00:25:17] I really love the tips that we've gone through so far about, you know, kind of pushing myself a little bit more on, you know, group calls at work where, you know, I could be a little bit more timid. Like when I think about especially my organization and let's say we're having a Q&A with our CEO, like they put so much emphasis on the question.

[00:25:42] Like we have to be sent in beforehand and it has to be vetted and approved. And like for that reason, I think that's kind of my pushback. And a lot of companies that I work for, not just this one, it's the same rules. Like when asking questions out loud, like you guys put so much emphasis on making sure that a question is perfect.

[00:26:04] That why would I just kind of willy nilly off the cuff ask something that could appear imperfect? And so I think that's. Yeah. That definitely makes sense. So someone with a five, you know, with a seven, five, four, three.

[00:26:24] And I know you said that three is not a bad number in the implementer type, you know, type phase. But for someone like me in a role where I may have to build some things out, right? I may have to. What would be a quick start? Wait, no, I got a foreign quick start. So now what would be a way for me from. So here are a couple is a couple of things.

[00:26:52] Try to make it where you're doing those physical building things. Try to make it the least important things in a project. So you already described like with your attention to detail and being an expert, it's going to drive you nuts if you're building something and it's not just right. So if it's something like wallpaper and you can do that part, you've done it, you know how to do it. It's fine. Great. Go ahead and do it.

[00:27:20] But if it's something that you aren't as good at, you know, something that is also maybe more, you know, three dimensional kind of building, maybe find other people where you can to fill those things in. But where you absolutely have to do it. I'd start it earlier in the day or in the project when you still have energy. Don't do it when you're already tired because it's going to be even more difficult and frustrating for you then. Another thing is put a time limit on it.

[00:27:49] Even if it's something that takes, it's going to take you two hours. Don't do it for two hours at a stretch. Do it for a half an hour, then go do something else, then go back to it and do it for another half an hour. Because what I've seen over and over again is there's kind of this, I don't know the right mathematical term to use, but it kind of builds on itself. When you've been doing something that's a little going against your grain. So we aren't measuring what you can or can't do. You can do those physical things.

[00:28:17] But when you've been doing it for a while, it seems to take more and more energy kind of per unit of output. The longer you do it and working against your grain. So that's why those shorter time periods are really good. You give yourself a break. You recharge a little bit. You know, so when you do that break, look, if you can take a break and like literally it's a break. Great. A lot of times it's, well, I can't take a break from the project.

[00:28:44] I still have to work on the project, but maybe go back to a part of it that isn't the physical building part. That, you know, this might sound silly. It's like, hey, there's a little paperwork to do. Yeah. Well, at least it's not building. So I'm shifting stuff. Not that you love the paperwork. Right. But for you, it'd be more like, hey, can I do a little bit of research on this? Some other part of the project. So that would be another suggestion.

[00:29:09] I make the joke to my manager that she does not speak Fluentron and I don't speak Fluent Louisa, which is my manager's name. And because of that, sometimes she will ask me to do a project or start a project or run a project. And let's say this project may take me a longer time, maybe like four hours to pull all the data, then build whatever deck I need to build. And then I do that.

[00:29:36] And then it goes to the next level up of management. And they're like, nope, scrap it. Do it all over again. My question is, after these projects come down, right? Because I don't speak Luisa. Luisa doesn't speak Tron. I'm going to do it the way my brain says do it. And that's not always the way that they want it to be done.

[00:29:57] So what are those quick little like whatever I need to know and ask before I spend four hours on something that I also that I think is brilliant, by the way? Okay. Yep. Say that. That then they're like, no, let's try this again. Yes.

[00:30:18] So as the answer authority and also as I was saying, that means a little bit the question authority, you do need to have your questions answered. So I'd try to figure out a way ahead of time to have the conversation with her and say, you know, when what I know works well for us, and I would try to describe it as us because you guys are a team. Yeah. What works well for us is when I have the opportunity to ask you two or three questions at the beginning.

[00:31:15] And you can pick the right number. I have the opportunity to ask you three to five minutes when we, when you're handing that project off to me where I can ask you some questions so that we get it off to the right start. Yeah.

[00:32:24] No. And then it doesn't even have to be that deep every single time.

[00:33:01] Is this three minute question period where I get to ask you a couple things. But to the extent you can tell her those ahead of time, that'd be great. Now, I'm the opposite end of the spectrum and follow through. If you said to me, oh, you have to fill out a cover sheet when you're handing off this project to me, just shoot me now. Like I hate having an extra step. Even if it's the same three questions, I would, I would much rather have you like, I'll say yes to you asking me the questions rather than me having to fill out the cover sheet.

[00:33:29] So that's the kind of thing where not knowing the other person, there's not one right way, but it's something along those lines. And from your response, yeah, it probably sounds like that create a system out of it is going to work well with her. For me, like adding the one extra step is brutal for me to have to go there and put last day touched. It's this day, but that's the way that it operates.

[00:33:55] And so maybe my question is someone that's like maybe an eight in follow through that's working with someone that's a seven in fact finding and a three in implementation. What's, how does that, what's the best way to navigate maybe that? Your seven in fact finder details and information, you have them there. If it needs to be, you know, reported on and put in a system where it's, oh my gosh, beginning, middle and end. And here's the end process.

[00:34:25] And that's not, you'll accommodate that. But it sounds like it's more than is really natural for you. One thing you can do to kind of take a deep breath about it is if there is a system. And by the way, sometimes you can ask her like, hey, can you create the system? Because I want to make sure that it's something that is going to work for us. Work. She'll create the system and might actually, I mean, usually you think of, well, you can't ask the boss to do work. You actually can.

[00:34:54] And she might appreciate the fact that you're kind of saying, wow, you're, this is just, you're so good at it. And I want to make sure that it's going to be something that works for you. If you create it, I'll live within it. And with your five and follow through, you will live within it. Right. Okay. Okay. Well then. I'm ready to go to work tomorrow. All right. I love it. I love it. Thank you.